LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.18 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 18.JUL.2005 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Etymology" [E]

> From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.17 (03) [E/LS]
>
> Heather, I totally agree with your delight with the aptness of many of the
> Tok Pisin words. In my dotage, I find myself sometimes coming up with
> similar sayings if I cannot find a word immediately.

I take it that this is something a native speaker of Tok Pisin doesn't 
notice?

Are there children who go to school as monolingual speakers of Tok Pisin and 
find English quaint and delightful?

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.17 (03) [E/LS]


"I assume that the suffix _-im_ comes from "him."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron"

Probably, but the point about Tok Pisin is that it adopted/adapted English 
to fit existing grammar  structures. "-im" is termed a Predicate Marker, and 
it occurs in many languages thoughout Melanesia.  A verb without a predicate 
marker would sound wrong.

Another common Melanesian feature is inclusive versus exclusive "we".  In 
English, or German, or most IE languages, a statement like "we are going 
now, nun gehen wir" doesn't make it clear whether the person being spoken to 
is included in "we".  In Tok Pisin, and Motu, it is.  "Mipela", and "ita" 
mean we - you're not included.  If the person spoken to is included the 
words are "yumipela" and "ai".  A single "we" sounds weird to many Pacific 
islanders so when Pidjin was evolving they had to invent two words.

Paul

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.17 (09) [E]


Luc wrote:
"What struck me is that "pekpek" denotes excrement.."
A funny story about that:  The Tok Pisin for crocodile is "pukpuk".  Around 
the time of independence the then PM of Australia, Gough Whitlam, visited 
PNG.  Giving a speech in Port Moresby about how much he enjoyed his visit, 
he said he was especially impressed by the sight of 15 foot long pekpeks 
floating in the Sepik River...

Paul

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.17 (03) [E/LS]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>brain: rot bilong het (< road belong head)<

Now that I find amazing.

Neural pathways before they were properly recognised and described?

Heather

PS Thanks for the list/s I ahve saved them all and will use them in
discussions with teachers about concepts of language and grammar.
Perfick! as Pop Larkin would say

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L

Hi all

The Tok Pisin examples are fascinating!

Incidentally, regarding "susu" for milk, is the Dutch equivalent to
comfort a baby also 'sus', as in Afrikaans ('Sus die baba aan die slaap')
or are we on to somethng here?

Elsie

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Etymology

Heather (above):

> PS Thanks for the list/s I ahve saved them all and will use them in
> discussions with teachers about concepts of language and grammar.
> Perfick! as Pop Larkin would say

Yeah, works for me.  Glad you find them useful.

I need to reiterate that I didn't post those examples and my notes for the 
sake of linguistic voyeuristic amusement but because I honestly believe that 
looking at lexical and morphological creations in pidgin and creole language 
teaches us a lot in more ways that one.  What you saw there is just the tip 
of the iceberg.  I also feel that, as "extremes" of their kind, they teach 
us something about possible "part creoles" like Afrikaans, English and 
Scots.

I would really like to see us to pay more attention especially to 
Lowlands-based pidgins and creoles and also feature those languages at the 
anniversary site (which has a few new contributions, by the way, and also 
could do with more help, including personal introductions --  
http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/).

Elsie (above):

> Incidentally, regarding "susu" for milk, is the Dutch equivalent to
> comfort a baby also 'sus', as in Afrikaans ('Sus die baba aan die slaap')
> or are we on to somethng here?

Interesting thought, considering a possible "Malay" connection.

However, could it not simply be a word like English "hush"?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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