LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.28 (01) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28.JUL.2005 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"

Beste Ron,

You wrote:

> First of all, the Low Saxon dialects once spoken in today's area of
> Berlin were Brandenburgish and were quite different from the North
> Saxon ones in the areas of Hamburg, Bremen, Flensburg and so forth.
> For one thing, they had much stronger Slavonic influences (possibly
> accounting for those "weird" Berlinisms like _Stulle_ for
> "sandwich").  In my book, those dialects are the easternmost extension
> of Eastphalian (of which our Gabriele's secret dialect is a
> westernmost representative).  The reason why they are classed as
> Eastern is mostly because of noticeable Slavonic influences, most
> notably the shift g > j before front vowels (e.g., _Jejend_ for
> _Gegend_ 'area'), possibly also the scarcity of diphthongs in
> comparison with North Saxon; e.g., _Been_ 'leg' = Berl/Br [be:n] vs NS
> [bE%In] (like "bane" in English).

First of all: "in my book". Huh?!? What kind of book did you write Ron?
Could you give some more information?

Secondly, _Stulle_ is of Dutch origin according to "De Vries". In his
etymological dictionary, he writes:

*stul*: znw. v. (zuidndl.) 'kluit boter; stuk, lap', (noordholl)
'koolplant om uit te zaaien', (drents) 'turfklomp', Kiliaen /stulle/,
/stolle/ 'brok, opgenaaide lap', oostfri. /stulle/ 'stok, brok, klomp',
ohd. /stollo/ 'steunsel, post' (nhd. /stolle/, /stollen/ 'korte dikke
stok als steun; een dikke vorm van koek, vgl. Christstolle) behoort tot
de groep van /stal/.

    Minder ws. is de afl. van een grondvorm /*stuð-lá/ waarvoor zie:
    /stutten/
    Voor de verbreiding van dit woord door nl. kolonisten naar de
    *Brandenburgse* *Mark* als /stulle/ 'snee brood' (vgl. Teuchert
    Sprachreste 295-298)

A couple of years ago, Dr. Frans Debrabandere also wrote a (very good
imho) etymological dictionary of West-Flemish; this is what he says:

*stul*; (DB, K), *stil* (K), zn. m.: klomp (boter, onder hoge glazen
boterstolp). Meestal samenst. /beuterstul/, /-stil/. De ontronde vorm
/stil/ komt voor op Overleie (K). Mnl. /stolle/ 'stuk', Vroegnnl.
/stolle/, /stulle/, /stuck/, /lap/ 'frustum, pars assuta'(Kiliaan). Os.
/stollo/ 'gestel', Ohd. /stollo/ 'stut, (deur)post', Mhd. /stolle/
'stut, gestel, post', Mnd. /stolle/ 'horizontale mijngang', D. /Stollen/
'langwerpig kerstgebak'. Verwant met Gr. /stêlê/ 'zuil, post'; bij Idg.
/*stel-/ 'stellen'.

I've been trying for years to find a copy of Teuchert's
Sprachreste...but to no avail so far. Anybody could direct me?

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks a lot for the _Stulle_, Luc!  I had not idea, but now that you 
explained it it makes a lot of sense.  I wonder then if German _Stollen_ is 
related to it.

"Flemish" influence due to migration to Brandenburg must not be forgotten.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Dag ook, Lüüd,
(English below)

bi't Rosenmey'n vannomiddag is mi eyn Tohouphang infull'n, no dennen ick all
lang söcht haar. Hett mit uns' lytt' _wren_ to doun.

In uns LS-Munn'oort hevvt wi dennen 'Freen', E: 'fence, hedge', G:
'Einfriedung, (Grenz-)Zaun', un door van affkoymstig 'Free'groov', E:
'bordering ditch', G: 'Grenzgraben, Friedegraben'.
Schall woll verwandt ween an G: 'Frieden' (Fränkisch' Heerkoomst??).
Man- alleyn de lytt _wren_ hett hier eyn annern Nomen ('Tuunkoynik')
kreygen!

Oppe anner Siid fin' ick in't Ingelte dyt 'Freen' (ouk as Verbum bruukt,-
man denn heyt dat E:'wedding' :-)!) naarms meyr- ellers givvt dat noch
jichenswo jichenseyn Woord van dyssen Stamm?

English:

Dear Lowlanders,

mowing the lawn this afternoon I got an idea for a matter I had been looking
for since a time. Has to do with our little _wren_.

In our regional dialect of LS we have 'Freen', E: 'fence, hedge', G:
'Einfriedung, (Grenz-)Zaun', and related 'Free'groov', E: 'bordering ditch',
G: 'Grenzgraben, Friedegraben'.
I guess it cognate with G: 'Frieden' (E: 'peace'); perhaps from Frankonian
origin?
But- our little _wren_ got a different name ('Zaunkönig')!

On the other hand, and that's what I'm curious about, I don't find this
'Freen' (also used as a verbum, but then in the meant of 'wedding' :-)!) in
English- or is there anywhere left any word from this stem?

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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