LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.07.31 (03) [E]

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From: Jan Strunk <strunkjan at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.07.28 (07) [E]

Hello everybody,

I just want to give you my humble opinion on Missingsch and the difference 
between Missingsch and the other Low Saxon-substrate varieties such as 
Berlinerisch and Ruhrdeutsch (from the Ruhr District).

I think that Ron hypothesis that the dialect of Berlin which retains Low 
Saxon function words like "det" (that, it), "ik" (I) and so on in contrast 
to Northern German Missingsch has grown more organically over a longer 
period of time might contain some truth. On the other hand, the dialect of 
the Ruhr District which is also based on Low Saxon syntax and phonology and 
like the Berlin
dialect retains Low Saxon function words such as "dat" (that), "et" (it), 
but not "ik" (I), has come into existence in at most two generations, from 
the beginning of the 20th century onwards when the whole area was 
industrialized and a huge number of people both from the adjacent Westphalia 
and the Rhineland, but also from East Prussia, Eastern Germany, Poland, etc. 
came to work and live there.
But still, I have read a survey from the 1920s where it is stated that about 
a half of the school children at that time spoke Westphalian Low Saxon at 
home (I can't remember the title and author of that study just now...). So 
my hypothesis would be that the "Shibboleth" Low Saxon function words were 
retained in the Ruhr Area and in Berlin because there was a mixing of people 
from the area itself and from the non-Low Saxon speaking area (which is not 
too far away from Berlin and the Ruhr) in the new emerging worker's areas in 
the towns which resulted in the use of High German words but these workers 
didn't aspire to the "pure" High German of
the "higher" social classes. Whereas in Hamburg the desire to speak "proper" 
High German
might have been stronger and thus the "Shiboleth" words such as "dat" and 
"ik"
might have been avoided. What do you think about this theory?

Gued gaon!

Jan Strunk
strunk at linguistics.rub.de

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From: Jan Strunk <strunkjan at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.07.28 (07) [E]

Hello,

Ingmar wrote:
> Furthermore, my own theory has always been that this j- for g- is from the
> West too. You think it's Slavic influence, but does this "shift" really
> occur only before front vowels? We find j- for g-also in German areas
> adjacent to the Netherlands and Belgium, like in Köln, Aachen, and I think
> in the Ruhrgebiet too. We find it in the Netherlands in South Eastern
> Limburg.

You won't find initial j- for g- in most of the Ruhrgebiet. It might be used 
by older people in the southwesternmost corner which borders on the Low 
Franconian dialects of the Rhine, such as Mühlheim, Duisburg, and so on. In 
the central and eastern parts of the Ruhrgebiet which belong to Westphalia 
you would rather sometimes find the g- pronounced as a voiceless or voiced 
palatal fricative, though mostly assimilated to a preceding word final one 
such as in:

weg gegang  ---> [wechegang]

Gued gaon!

Jan Strunk
strunk at linguistics.rub.de

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From: Jan Strunk <strunkjan at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.07.28 (07) [E]

Hello,

just some stories about speaking "pure" High German. I frankly can't stand 
hearing "people in Hannover speak the purest High German" anymore....
What's purest High German anyway. They happen to pronounce most of the High 
German words pretty closely to the "Hochlautung" or "Bühnenlautung" just 
because this construct was based on High German (i.e. southern German) 
pronounced in a northern way, saying "König" (king) as "könich" instead of 
"könik" for example.
But on the other hand, I am pretty sure that many people in Hannover would 
say "Taach" for "Tag" (day) and not "Taak" as would be "standard". (In 
Ruhr-German we say "Tach" with a short a just like in Low Saxon "dag".)

Now two anecdotes about people who were convinced that they spoke High 
German without the slightest regional accent.
1. Once I met a girl from Hamburg in America. She indeed spoke very much 
standard
    High German but still I could tell immediately that she was from Hamburg 
or somewhere
    in the vicinity because of her spreading nasalization and her intonation 
which
   sounds really strange to someone from the Ruhrgebiet, almost a little bit 
like the
   "Scandinavian sing-song".

2. My mother used to be a German teacher with a love for prescriptive 
grammar.
    She used to speak standard High German and was also convinced that she
    didn't have any local accent.
    But still e.g. she of course always said "Kirche" (church) as "kiäche"
    instead of "küeche" as they
    do in other parts of Germany. (But this is a feature which is not really
    consciously known to  many people and thus is not a real Shiboleth.)

Last but not least, even for most news readers on television you can at 
least tell whether they are from Southern or Nothern Germany and sometimes 
whether they are from the east or
the west.

Best greetings!

Jan Strunk
strunk at linguistics.rub.de

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