LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.02 (05) [E]

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.02 (01) [E]


Gavin Falconer wrote:
"Surely there are five declensions in Irish..."

Yes. Gabh mo leithscéal mór. I was writing with speed and to make a point,
accuracy was left by the by.

Also:
"Irish has formed a sort of Sprachbund with English that means that, after
the initial hurdles, the most difficult being the spelling system, it is
often possible for English-speakers to achieve a higher standard than in
much more closely related languages such as German."

I am not sure why you suggest a sprachbund. I do not see any deep
similarities between Irish and English that would warrant that label. But I
certainly agree that Irish is not a particularly difficult language to
learn - the hardest parts are the broad and slender consonants, the
different dialects, and some of the spelling. Of course, this is no
different to English, where the usages of dhelta and theta would be as
difficult to a non-English speaker as the broad and slender consonants would
be to a learner of Irish.

I still make lots of 'mistakes' in speaking and writing Irish (usually in
translating too literally into English, leaving my speech and prose stilted
and disjointed), but no more than I would in any other language. My greatest
problem is confidence, which is common affliction among any who have learnt
another language to their own.

Heather Rendall wrote:
"If the Irish want to move their language into the 21st century, they
will... but I bet it's happening without the aid of focused discussion - out
on the streets and in the homes, which is where all language really lives
and develops!"

Exactly. There is no need for nonsensical language academies enforcing new
ways of speaking on Gaeilgeori. They will not work. (Also, Irish is already
a twenty-first century language, and has been for four years.) They subvert
the language rather than supporting it, and create rifts that are far, far
too difficult to heal.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.02 (01) [E]

Heather wrote:
> In the last twenty years 'whom' has practically disappeared from the
> English
> of the under 40s.

On the other hand, I just read an English mystery novel (a British edition,
too) that actually contained the sentence "I did not know whom he was."

I suppose the writer must have been over 40, then. I have come across this
kind of construction more than once, unfortunately; the perpetrators are
usually the same people who would say things like "it was a great
opportunity for my wife and I".

Gabriele Kahn

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Gabriele (above):

> I suppose the writer must have been over 40, then. I have come across this
> kind of construction more than once, unfortunately; the perpetrators are
> usually the same people who would say things like "it was a great
> opportunity for my wife and I".

Don't you think this is in the same league with some English speakers (only
American or also others?) who, beginning as early as in the 19th century
(when "thou," "thee," "thine," "thy" and "ye" had already given way to "you"
and "your(s)"), wanted to sound "biblically correct" and used objective
"thee" in place of nominative "thou" and "objective "ye" in place of
nominative "you"?  For example, "Thee have sinned most gravely, Brother"
(instead of correct "Thou hast sinned most gravely, Brother," if not
contemporary "You have sinned most gravely, Brother"), and "Oh, ye fickle
people of Chestertown, what have ye done now?" (instead of correct "Oh, you
fickle people of Chestertown, what have you done now?").

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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