LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.05.03 (01) [D/E]

Fri Jun 3 15:30:27 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: RVZSTERN at aol.com <RVZSTERN at aol.com>
Subject: werkwoorden werpen/gooien/smijten (D)

Werpen is not at all an obsolete word, but as a verb mostly( but not
exclusively) used in formal language.  The word smijten does not have a
pejorative connotation, but merely it describes a way of throwing that
includes force and ( sometimes,but not necessarily) anger or uncaring, not
unlike the English verb "to strike". Then there are a number of idioms with
the verb smijten such as " iemand iets maar het hoofd smijten" and "met geld
smijten". I've also heard about the verb smijten in the context of farm
animals such as 'die koe smijt nog wel eens". Of course we've all heard
someone ' de deur dicht smijten" after a quarrel!

I haven't looked into the Van Dale yet, but am sure that there are plenty of
other examples.

My two cents here just indicating all three verbs gooien, werpen,and smijten
and alive and well and used plenty in daily conversations. Hope I haven't
"smitten" you too much with this all!

Roeliena van Zanten

"Werpen" is niet zozeer een verouderd woord, maar wordt als werkwoord
meestal gebruikt in formeel taalgebruik. Het woord "smijten" doelt op een
manier van gooien dat kracht  inhoudt, soms ook gepaard gaand met woede of
onverschilligheid. Men zou dat kunnen vergelijken met het engelse werkwoord
"to strike". Dan zijn er ook ettelijke spreekwoorden met het woord "smijten"
zoals " iemand iets naar her hoofd smijten" en "met geld smijten". Ik heb
het werkwoord smijten ook wel eens gehoord met betrekking tot dieren op de
boerderij, zoals in " die koe smijt nog wel eens". Natuurlijk hebben we
allemaal wel eens iemand "de deur dicht horen smijten".

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.06.01 (05) [E]

Dear Mathieu & All

Subject: LL-L 'Language varieties'

>> I agree that 'gooien' is the word most often used in the General Dutch
>> variety in Belgium. To my mind, 'werpen' sounds rather stif and archaic.
>> In Flemish dialects, however, 'werpen' is, next to 'smijten',  is the
>> normal word.

This string tickles me, but I don't quite know how to respond to it. Here
goes: in Afrikaans we use 'gooi' & 'werp' freely & easily in both literary &
coversational context.

Gooi = Throw, as in 'Iemand met 'n klip gooi' (Throw a stone at someone), or
'gooitou' (lassoo).

Werp = Throw, as in 'Werp' Anker!(cast anchor!), or 'werphout' (boomerang)

It is not so much a matter of the one being an exclusive synonym of the
other, though, as that each has a broad application that partially but not
completely coincides. In some cases either can be freely applied but in
others only one or the other is appropriate.

How about that, in Flemish or in Nederlands?

Yrs,
Mark

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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Lexicon

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> In most North Saxon dialects of Low Saxon, _smyten_
> (<smieten>)* tends to be the default word for 'to throw', 'to
> cast'.  It tends to be the equivalent of German _werfen_.
> The cognate of German _werfen_ and Dutch _werpen_ seems to be
> lost.  (I would expect *_warpen_, petrified in _mulwarp_ ~
> _mulworp_ 'mole').  In the farwestern dialects, especially in
> those of Eastern Friesland, you get _goyen_ (<gooien>).
>
> * The English cognate "to smite," originally 'to throw',
> later specialized in 'to administer a blow'.

Here in my neck of the woods, _smijten_ is definitely the most common word
for 'to throw'. Never ever have I heard a true dialect speaker pronounce
_werpen_ or _gooien_. To a lesser extent some other verbs are also still in
use, like "roeien" and "pieren". Apparently, just like in English _een
smijting_ is used when somebody gets a beating: "Eit dÃ Ã  een goei smaÃ«tink
gad" is said when somebody got his *** whooped *s*. By the way, _smijten_
has no pejorative connotation whatsoever.

Re "stieren" for "sturen" (>< "zenden"), the situation is a little
ambiguous: even though we have no unrounding here (always "sturen", and not
"stieren"), yet you will hear "bestieren" for "besturen". Maybe this
phenomenon coincides with the _vier_ ~ _vuur_, the _ongehiere_ ~ _ongehure_
(~ ungeheuer (G), onguur (D)) and the _dier_ ~ _duur_ (~ teuer (G)) -
isogloss. Probably also with the very name for our "Volkssprache" _Diets_ ~
_Duuts_ (~ Deutsch (G)) *s*. Come to think of it: I had expected that
English would rather evolve to something like "Ditch" instead of "Dutch",
based on other phonetic relationships. Northern Dutch influence during the
"golden" 17th century?

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L

Hi all,

Paul asked: English "warp", with the now changed meaning of twist or
distort, is
obviously cognate with *werfen*, *werpen* etc (OE weorpan);  Can anybody
think of an English cognate with *gooien*?

Not sure what it is you want; I think there are many cognates such as
'fling' and 'throws'
(in the throws of birth pains) and so on.

Elsie Zinsser

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From: Frank Verhoft <frank.verhoft at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.02 (08) [E]

Hi Paul, all,

Paul:
<<<Can anybody think of an English cognate with *gooien*?<<<

According to my dictionary:

- 1350: goyen, gooyen, meaning to throw, to stream (!)
- 'gooien' may be an Ablaut variant of 'gieten', and it doesn't appear
outside "this little language area".

So, there are OE cognates of gieten, viz. geotan, but in the sense of to
pour our.

I hope this helps a bit.

Groetjes,

Frank

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