LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.06.04 (05) [E]

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From: Dan Prohaska <danielprohaska at bluewin.ch>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" [E]

Reinhard, Mark and others,
I've tried to do some research on Vegliot and the standard work written on
it by one Mr Bartoli was quite difficult to come by. I did find an old dusty
copy of it in the Austrian National Library and found it to be most
interesting. In it was the interview with the "last" reputed native speaker
"Tuone Udaina", several other examples such as prayers and conversational
phrases, a phonological description and a brief account of the grammar, with
some paradigms extended by reconstruction.

All in all it seems that Vegliot was a Romance idiom in its own right, close
to the neighbouring Istriot and Venetian dialects of Italian through contact
more than an older genetic relationship. It is difficult to separate the
chore vocabulary from native words, naturalised loans and loans, but the few
example words I have found point towards a transitional West-to-East Romance
base phonology. Some early features seem to point to Dalmatian spoken Latin
having been different from both Western and Eastern Romance, for example as
the reconstructed back vowel row indicates. For lack of examples I may be
mistaken and I may have over-interpreted some of the evidence I have, but it
looks as though some classical Latin distinctions were maintained longer
than in both Italy and the more southerly Balkans. But as I said the
material is too scanty and so very much influenced by the neighbouring
Italian dialects that making absolute statements is very difficult indeed.

Where the consonants are concerned it definitely shares features of Balkan
Romance. There was no voicing of intervocalic voiceless consonants and where
they occur they are most definitely loans from Northern Italian. Romance /k/
and /g/ were only palatalised before /i/ (and so it seems a fronted /u/) not
before /e/, as is usual in all other varieties of Romance except some
Sardinian varieties.

I want to make the Bartoli- writings on Vegliot available sometime, but I
don't know when I'll get round to it.

I hope I haven't been ranting too far off-topic here. Thanks for your Links
to Istriot, Reinhard, I will certainly look into them in more detail when I
have time.

All the best,
Dan

>> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Language varieties

>> Be, Mark,

>> The language is called "Dalmatian" in English, and it is extinct now.
>> The last speaker died in 1898.  It was spoken along the Adriatic coast
>> (Dalmatia).  It had two dialects: Vegliotian (Vegliot(to), center
>> Veglia/Krk) and Ragusan.  The last domain of Ragusan was in and around
>> Dubrovnik (Ragusa, formerly _Respublica Ragusina_).

>> The Romance language still spoken in Croatia, though by a tiny number of
>> people now, is Istriot, on the Istrian Peninsula.  It's rather closely
>> related to Italian.  It is by some seen as the last relic of Northern
>> Dalmatian.

>> The Dalmatian coast used to be intermittently under Venetian and Italian
>> power.  The Romance language(s) faded away as minority languages under
>> overwhelming Slavonic domination.  However, Dalmatian culture, cuisine
>> and music are still noticeably Romance-based.  As soon as you leave the
>> coast you'll find that they are more Slavonic-based.

>> It's a lovely, lovely area with charming people, both on the coast and in
>> the mountains.

>> Regards,
>> Reinhard/Ron

---------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hi, Dan!

> I hope I haven't been ranting too far off-topic here.

I enjoyed your rare appearance, budz, on- or off-topic.  I didn't know this
topic tickles your fancy.

> "Tuone Udaina",

Italian Antonio Udina(!).  (/ii/ > /ai/?)

> Where the consonants are concerned it definitely shares features of Balkan
> Romance.

Eastern Romance features:
/kt/ > /pt/; e.g., 'eight': _octo_ > _guapto_ (cf. Romanian _opt_)
/ks/ > /ps/; e.g., 'thigh': _coxa_ > _kopsa_ (cf. Romanian _coapsa_)

In fact, I wonder if all this goes back to a conflux of North Italians with
Romanians.

> Thanks for your Links
> to Istriot, Reinhard, I will certainly look into them in more detail when
> I
> have time.

Sure.  I'll let you have more if I stumble across some.

There ought to be oodles of material on this topic in Zagreb, Krk and
Dubrovnik (all lovely places for vacation trips).

By the way, when I talk to Croatians about this, especially to Croatians who
do not consider themselves to have a Romance heritage, I often get
descriptions in negative terms, for instance "Latin barbarized by
Illyrians," almost as though justifying its disappearance ("good riddance").

Oh, and then there is the very, very endangered Istro-Romanian dialect
(German _Istrorumänisch_) of the village Žejane in the northeastern part of
the Istrian Peninsula.  The people call themselves _Vlaşi_ or _Rumâni_
(Wallachians/Vlachs or Romanians), and other locals call them _Ciribiri_.
(And there are other Romanian enclaves farther south in FYR Macedonia and
Greece.)

I wonder if this can be transferred to the Lowlands.  For example, Flemish
remnants and substrates in France?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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