LL-L "Phonology" 2005.05.14 (11) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 14.JUN.2005 (11) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.05.14 (07) [E]


Elsie Zinsser wrote:
"...this gradual running from one sound into another also occurs in
Afrikaans... The first consonant [d] starts off as a sound similar to /r/
and then ends as a clear [d] in the second consonant and is often eventually
pronounced by many as [para] ... Is this what you're after?"

If it only occurs in this situation in Afrikaans. Many Englishes (including
Nottingham English) have a rule by which medial [t] > [d] > [r] e.g., "get
it" is usually "gerit" and "get out" is "geraat". I think a flap [r] was
probably the missing link between [d] proper and [r] here.

The point is that your unique sound in Afrikaans should have developed as a
compromise between two conflicting sound rules. Very interesting!

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.


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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.05.14 (05) [E]


Agon Ron wrote:
"IPA: belted "l" This is very interesting, especially its history, which
makes a lot of sense: (1) /l/ becomes voiceless after /t/ (2) voiceless /l/
becomes a fricative (3) /t/ before /l/ is deleted (1) and (2) happened in
Icelandic as well, (3) in some varieties too, I believe. The process seems
rather natural to me."

"Some varieties" of what? I am glad the natural process makes sense - for a
while I thought the shift of /tl/ > [K] may have been substrate interference
from Cornish. I am not sure how old this feature is. There is still
occasionally a remnant [t] before [K] depending on stress, so it can't be
that old.

Ron also wrote:
"In Germany, [K] is associated with defective pronunciation of /s/ (as are
[T] and [D]), casually called a _slicker_ ['KIk3`] in the north."

That's interesting. In most English mindsets [K] is considered, like [x], to
be tantamount to spitting. English speakers mocking Welsh will usually spit
or blow a raspberry to demonstrate their inability to properly perceive [K]
as a linguistic item. I have always thought the sound much closer to X-SAMPA
[T] (theta). In the same sense, I have always found the insistence in
guidebooks of describing X-SAMPA [G] (Greek ghamma) as a /y/ - as if [j] -
as most odd.

I suppose Scouse might consider [x] [X] and [C] (X-SAMPA) to be unique
sounds in the vein we are discussing, considering they are only found in the
same word-terminal space as my uvular plosive [q] in "kick" "flick" and
"tick" (etc.).

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Críostóir (above):

> "Some varieties" of what?

Rule No. 3 applied as well, in some varieties of Icelandic -- or so I
vaguely remember.

As for [K], it is interpreted variously in languages that do not have this
sound, always as some sort of fricative or affricate.

In Germany it is associated with /s/ (because of the speech defect).

In English-speaking communities Welsh <ll> [K] used to be heard as akin to
/f(l)/ (hence e.g. Lloyd > Floyd, Llewelyn > Flello) or /hw/ (e.g. Llewelyn
 > Whellin > Wellin(g)).

Native American [K] and [tK] (regional features spread from Alaska to Tierra
del Fuego) have been interpreted as /tl/ in English and Spanish (Seattle <
Lushotseed _Si(w)alK_ ~  _Dzidzalal'ich_, Nahuatl < Nahuatl/Aztec _naawaK_ >
_naawas'_ <Náhuatl>), in English also as [T] (<th> (e.g., Sealth <
Lushotseed _Si(w)alK_ ~  _Dzidzalal'ich_), sometimes as zero in Spanish
(e.g., Acapulco < Nahuatl/Aztec _akaKpolko_ "thick reed").

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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