LL-L "Terminology" 2005.06.16 (04) [E/Spanish]

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From: Ulpi Á lvarez <email at ulpialvarez.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2005.05.14 (03) [E/German/Spanish]

> From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
> Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2005.06.13 (05) [E/German/Portuguese/Spanish]
>
> En un e-mail anterior (no me acuerdo de quien) se mencionó que los
> parlantes
> del portugués no se consideran "hispanic".  Hace una década más o menos,
> yo
> ocupaba un trabajo en que administré un examen del Departamento de Trabajo
> de los EEUU.  El examen se llamó General Aptitude Test Battery, y una
> sección pidió la raza o grupo étnico.  Según las reglas vigentes en esa
> década, una persona con una herencia de la península ibérica se
> consideraba
> ¨hispanic¨.  Me acuerdo muy bien cuando informé a una brasileña que se
> consideraba hispana según nosotros.  Ella rehusó enfaticamente a marcarse
> hispana en el formulario.  Fué así como yo la había insultado
> profundamente.
> ¡Qué manera de aprender ese punto delicado!  :-0
>
> Mark Brooks
>
> ----------
>
> From: jean duvivier <duvassoc at comcast.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2005.06.13 (08) [E]
>
> Ron,
>
> Your comments are entirely accurate. I never understood why the PC crowd
> insists  on labeling "Hispanics" those Spanish speaking people from
> Central
> America and the Caribbean, who as you say are more often than not mestizos
> or cholos, and ignore the Chileans, Argentines, Venezuelans, etc.. who are
> "criollos" that is of white Spanish origin. Again why do they ignore the
> Portuguese and Brazilians ?, it is all a sad example of the arbitrary and
> obsolete way of looking at people.
> I would have thought that this disappeared when the Nazis bit the dust,
> but
> of course it is still with us.
>
> Jean
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language use
>...
> Although I don't really approve of PC bashing, I agree with you.  The type
> of thinking we are talking about was very, very strange to me when I first
> came to this country, and it took studying US history more closely to
> understand the baggage behind it.  People still tend to think in terms of
> racial categories and to simplify the categorization.  They do the latter
> obviously because their heads would explode if they paid attention to all
> the variations.  (The simple solution of not thinking in racial terms to
> begin with has not occurred to most because categorization is too deeply
> ingrained.)  If you show just the teensiest bit of African physical
> attributes you are "Black," or "African American" in prettied-up terms,
> and
> your European, Native American or Asian admixtures are unimportant, are
> overridden, no matter how dominant.  In some cases I can't even see "the
> African blood" when born Americans point it out to me.  Unfortunately, the
> majority of Americans of African origin participate in this for their own
> reasons, and thus it is perpetuated.  People have tried to pretty up the
> terminology (e.g., "race" > "ethnicity" > "culture", "multiracial" >
> "multicultural" > "diverse").  However, the way of thinking has not
> changed
> significantly (except among some currently rather young people, thank
> goodness).  Also, this may explain why so few "Americans" -- and there are
> many of them -- admit having indigenous ancestors.
>...
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Hi people,

I'm sorry this comes in a little late, but my DSL line was down the last 2
days.

This is what I found using the Oxford English Dictionary and el Diccionario
de la Real Academia de la Lengua Española:

     - Hispanic: of or relating to Spain or to Spanish-speaking countries,
esp. those of Latin America.
     - Hispano: Perteneciente o relativo a Hispania. Perteneciente o
relativo a las naciones de Hispanoamérica.

'Hispano' as it's used in Spain's current Spanish counts Portugal and Brazil
in but the English definition seems to exclude them since they speak
Portuguese, not Spanish. I believe a much more politically correct
alternative to 'hispanic' would be 'latin/o', but that would also include
the French, the Italians and even the Romanians.

I worked for an 'American' company in Belgium some time ago and upon
recruitment we had to fill out the typical personal data forms. One of them
was about race (so much for an 'equal employer') and I actually didn't know
which box to tick myself. I may proudly call myself 'hispano', but I'd never
thought of calling myself 'hispanic'. One of the HR assistants told me to
chose 'caucasian'. I certainly do look caucasian, but should I consider
myself a coward for felling hispano but not hispanic? :-S

Saludos,

Ulpi

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Hey, Ulpi!

Good to see you back in the land of functioning information technology.

Take them or leave them, I have two pieces of advice:

(1) Don't even try to make sense of the terminology ("American," "Hispanic"
or whatever)!
      As for "Hispanic" and "Latin," remember that there is a complex
history behind ethnic and racial terminologies in the Americas.  A label
that is fine today may turn into a pejorative tomorrow and will need to be
replaced by a euphemism, and this euphemism may then be abbreviated or
changed, and it, too, may have to be replaced because it takes on a negative
flavor ... and so on, and so forth.  The original intent was to refer to
people from "Spanish" ("Hispanic") parts of the Americas, and most of those
that immigrate to the US happen to be of partly non-European descent.  Thus
it became a type of racial (or racist)term. Most "Americans" don't even know
there's a connection between "Hispanic" and "Spanish."  "Latin" refers to
all people of Latin America, including those from Brazil.  However, a person
from those countries that is or can pass as entirely "Caucasian" may not
fall into this category.  You see what I mean by "racial terms"?  Don't even
try to use logic in order to make sense of it all!  I've long given up on
that and just shake my head occasionally, because I don't even believe in
the existence of "races" to begin with ...  However, I am aware that most
people still do think in those terms and that I can't just ignore that and
the fact that it is a type of _perpetuum mobile_ powered by mutual feeding
between thinking and labeling and thinking and labeling ...
        As for "American," as far as I know, it goes back to the early
colonial days in which British people born in North America distinguished
themselves from those born in Britain (and later from other parts of
Europe).  As you know, this became a very important distinction that led to
independence from Britain and is the root of the discriminatory law that
forbids a foreign-born "American" to run for the office of president, as
though place of birth had any bearing on the ability to do the job.
Besides, the interpretation of "continent" varies from place to place, is
not purely geographical.  In Europe, North and South America are considered
one continent.  In the US they are considered two, with Canada, the US and
Mexico constituting North America.  If not ideal, at least it makes more
sense geographically than considering Eurasia two continents: Europe and
Asia.

(2) Don't lose any sleep over what you consider yourself, and certainly
don't apologize about it!
      I usually either do not indicate my "ethnicity" (< "race") or indicate
"other," occasionally write "none" or "Eurasian" (to confuse people who
might think I have one parent from Europe and another from Eastern Asia),
once "Pomeranian" ...  I know that similar stunts are pulled by many people
who find all this ridiculous.  (You know, those questions, if you are male
or female and if you're over 40 years of age are -- which are, strictly
speaking, illegal --are asked "only for statistical purposes" ... Yeah, I'm
sure!)   I often handle university applicants' and students' files and find
all sorts of funny responses.  (Once I found "Bushwhacker" and thought it
was a prank, but when I looked at a list of all previously occurring
"ethnicities" I did indeed find a native "tribe" called "Bushwhackers" ...)
If you think that there is a difference between _hispano_ and "Hispanic" and
that you're one but not the other, that's entirely your prerogative.  In
actual fact, as far as I know, in the US you're legally entitled to regard
your "ethnicity" as being anything you wish, even "Martian," "Elvish" or
"Hobbit" if you like, because self-identification overrides all.  But how
other people perceive and classify you and if you will get the job ... well,
those are different stories again.

Saludos,
Reinhard/Ron

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