LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.02.28 (04) [D/E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28.FEB.2005 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From:  Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: Idiomatica


Hi Ingmar, This will be a switch; I usually teach Dutch to English speakers.

Here is the “spiel” I give my English speaking students about the difference
of the use of tenses.

“Although Dutch has a Simple Past like English, we do not use it as you do.
For us this is a narrative tense, a tense in which you describe things that
you know happened in the past, as if they were happening today. (Watching a
Western movie, you know it took place in the past, but the horses thundering
across the prairie seem mighty real) Like: “De Indianen op hun snelle
paarden stonden boven aan de bergrand en schoten met pijl en boog op de
blanke landverhuizers” (The Indians on their fast horses stood on the rim of
the mountains and shot at the settlers with bow and arrows).  We achieve
this effect because the simple past is the closest thing we have to the
present tense. We also use the simple past to describe several things we
have recently done, but then in the end we put the last item in the present
perfect tense because we need to know that we are not still doing it. “We
gingen vandaag naar Amsterdam, eerst bekeken wij de schilderijen in het
Rijksmuseum, toen gingen we naar het RAI gebouw.

‘sAvonds namen we de trein naar Utrecht terug en hebben lekker in ons eigen
bed geslapen.” (We went to Amsterdam today, first we looked at the paintings
in the Rijksmuseum, then we went to the RAI building. In the evening we took
the train to Utrecht and have slept very well in our own beds” Literal
Translation) Do you see that we use the last term of this sentence to make
sure that we know that that was the end of our day trip. IT IS OVER AND DONE
WITH!

That is a feeling that we Dutch apply to everything, in our every day
existence, that we feel is behind us.

The English speaker will say “Did you have Breakfast?” “We say Heb je al
ontbeten.?” The English speaker says “I slept well” we say “Ik heb lekker
geslapen”.(After all I am awake aren’t I?)

So that is the reason why almost all English speakers make the same mistake
in Dutch. They use the simple past where we use the present tense.

Of course it is not as simple as I made it out to be. It might help you to
get a hold of an English language Grammar of Dutch

Then you can see for yourself what weird mental contortions they must make
to understand the Dutch.

Long live the Polder Jacqueline

PS. Ik zal het hele verhaal nog een keer in het Nederlands vertalen en het
naar je toe sturen. J.

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From:  Ben Bloomgren <ben.bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.02.28 (03) [E]

Ingmar, let me try. If you have taken French, I can explain it much easier.
I'll assume that you have taken it, and we'll go from there.

The construction, "I have bought books" indicates that at one time recently,
I bought books. In Dutch as well as French and German, this is the usual
past tense now even though they all have a simple past/preterite like
bought. When you say that I was buying books, that is like the imparfait in
French. I was in the process of buying the books. Basically, that is a past
equivalent of the regular present progressive in English. I have been buying
books indicates that I have been in the process of buying books. My parents
asked my brother a few years ago, "What have you been doing all this time?"
it indicates perfective aspect and the recent past. Those progressives would
be translated into French as J'ai été en train d'acheter des livres.
If that helps, tell me. If not, tell me.
Ben

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