LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.10 (11) [E/S]

Fri Mar 11 00:03:49 UTC 2005

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L O W L A N D S - L * 10.MAR.2005 (11) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ben Bloomgren <ben.bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.10 (01) [E]

I am doing a project in my Caribbean Studies class on the Creoles of the
Caribbean that are based on English. I need to find some resources on them
that are easily accessible to a blind person. I also need to do some
interviews with people who speak them to know how they work and how similar
they are to each other. That is, how easily can a Jamaican understand a
Guyanese? Ron, if you know anyone who speaks the English based Creoles or if
you have any resources online or elsewhere, please email me off the list.
Ben

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From: embryomystic at cogeco.ca <embryomystic at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.08 (12) [E]

Ron wrote:

> I showed a couple of the Venetian poems to someone who
> comes from the Veneto and has been living here for quite
> a while.  Her reaction?  She tried to crack a smile
> (assumedly to accommodate me), but she came out looking
> rather like I had just shown her a picture of her
> grandma's undies that I had discovered on the web ...
> I'm familiar with that sort of face.  When I showed her
> the Corsican and Sardinian pages, she made defensive hand
> movements and ran away ... so there was some added
> prejudice at play.
>
> Many people, especially Europeans, still think
> that "dialect" is something you can deal with either
> academically (if you must, in your little office)
> or to make fun of it; it is not to be taken seriously.
>
> I saw similar facial expressions when about a year ago I
> spoke about Low Saxon with a lady who was born and raised
> in Zwolle in a family that moved there from Northern
> Holland.  People like her probably consider me rather
> "odd," to put it mildly.  She accommodated me while I was
> speaking about the dialects in Northern Germany, but I
> lost her when I started mentioning the Eastern
> Netherlands.  Too close to home, I guess.

This is exactly why I haven't spoken to my grandfather yet about my interest
in Scots. I honestly have no idea how he feels about it, even though I heard
him mention it once when speaking about an old song (he's an amateur
musician). I was thinking, the other day, about how he would react if I
wrote to him in Scots. I fear he'd think that I was making fun of him, even
though he very definitely speaks SSE, and not even very Scots-influenced SSE
(he grew up in Largs, which is, as I understand it, sort of a touristy
town). It's sad, because he's my closest connection to the language, but I
don't know how to speak to him about it, if I can at all.
Regards,

Isaac M. Davis

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hi, Ben and Isaac, Lowlanders!

Good to hear from you, as always, Ben.

As far as your undertaking goes, "Good on yer, mate," to use an
Australianism.

I am absolutely sure I'm not the expert on contact languages here, though
I'm very interested in that topic and have read a fair bit about it.  Great
resources that spring to mind are Marco Evenhuis and Ingmar Roerdinkholder,
at least as far as "Dutch"-based contact languages are concerned.

As for English-based varieties, I recommend dealing with Tok Pisin ("Talk
Pidgin," a.k.a. Neo-Melanesian) of Papua New Guinea, where it is an official
lingua franca along with English.  There are fairly good resources about it,
including web resources.  To start with:

http://www.une.edu.au/langnet/tokpisin.htm
http://tpi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://wikitravel.org/en/Tok_Pisin_phrasebook
http://www.linguist.de/TokPisin/ (English & German)
http://www.ida.liu.se/~g-robek/PNG-TokPisin.htm
http://www.ida.liu.se/~g-robek/PNG-TokPisinBibliography.htm

And I'm very happy to say that our very own Radio Australia (which is wildly
pupular in many parts of Asia, especially in China) has Tok Pisin news
programming, including a nice web presentation with audio files (which I
love listening to):

http://www.abc.net.au/ra/tokpisin/
Click on what's under "Harim Progrem" ("Hear Programme"): "New Blong Nau"
("Current News"), "Mo Nius" ("More News") and "Harim Ol Nupela Progrem"
("Hear All New Programmes").  I hope you can navigate that with your reading
program.

As for the menu:
Nius = News
Karent Afeas = Current Affairs
Mama Graun = Homeland (I think)
Helt Ripot = Health Report
Yut Foram = Youth Forum
Wantok = Friend(s) ("One-Talk")

By the way, in Tok Pisin _blong_ (< belong) is a genitive marker like "of,"
and "...pela" is an adjective marker, thus _bigpela haus_ 'large house'.
Once you know that, it's gets fairly easy, except when there are Melanesian
loans such as _kaikai_ 'to eat', 'food'.  The language structure is
ingenious.

Also, you need to know that these language varieties owe quite a bit to
China Coast Pidgin, now pretty much extinct.  (I had the pleasure to still
meet someone who could speak it.)

I hope this helps. Good luck, Ben!

Isaac, a hertie walcom tae ye in wir wee bletherin cabal!

My suggestion: let your dad know that you are genuinely interested in Scots
and that you are not the only one, that it's on the way back to being not
only accepted but even respected -- and *then* start writing to him in
Scots.  This is what others have suggested, and it's what I do in the case
of Low Saxon.  That way people may think you're _orra an droll_, but at
least they will know that you are not making fun of them.

An noo that ye've "come oot," hoo aboot an innin for wir anniversary steid
(wi a photie)?  :-)

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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