LL-L "Orthography" 2005.03.16 (07) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 16.MAR.2005 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: orthography

I still have a few questions about the AS, because I want to translate my
intro for the A-site in Low Saxon written in that spelling.
What I really need is a clear survey how to write all vowels and
diphthongs (and consonants) of my LS dialect(s).
I see you use ö, oy, oe and öy for what I think must be [ø:], and
ey, ee, e for [e:]. ou, oo, o for [o:] etc.
Probably that is because Northern Low Saxon has a lot of diphthongs, but
most Dutch Low Saxon varieties use monophthongs and that must be reflected
in the orthography. Anyway, I'll give it a try and send it through to you.

Ingmar

>From: R. F. Hahn:
>
>Prima, beste Ingmar!  Ik kan allens bestens verstaan. Man vör de lesers in
>Duytschland schulst 'n glossaar an-hangen vun wöyrd', dey vör jüm
>problemaatsch sünd, so as "letterkündig".  Wen 'n dat verstaat, den sachs
as
>'n "valschen vründ", kan ween as _gebildet_ (geletterd) or as
>_literarwissenschaftlich_ (literairwetenschappelijk).
>
>Wen Du al drey warken up d'n dut hest (un de bruukt nich lang tou syn),
den
>schulst dey al düt jaar in-senden, mutst bedinken, dat de meyrsten
>schryvers-luyd' by 't eyrste mit-doun nich winnen dout.
>
>Ik wünsch Dy spoud daar by.
>
>Reinhard/Ron

>From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
>Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2005.03.15 (04) [E/LS]
>
>Ah, ik bin blyde as dat et Freudenthal-Geselschop erst in twey duysend
>sesse syn jubileum hev, en niit erder. Dan kan ik ok kalm an deran denken
>üm mit to duun voyr dii letterkündige prys ;-) Dit jaor sol wat to snel
>waeden.
>So Reyn, wat fyn y van myn perberen üm in AS te schryven?
>
>Ingmar

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Ingmar,

I don't have the time for a detailed response at the moment.  Anyway, I
ought to defer to our Kenneth who's more clued in re the dialects west of
the border and their possible spelling.

What you see from me reflects the varieties of the North Saxon range, which
apply to a large to the Groningen area as well.

We no longer use <öy>, use <oy> instead, which stands for either [9.I] or
[O.I] in the dialect range (e.g., <boym(')> 'trees', pl. of <boum>, <voyt>
'feet', pl. of <vout>).  What we write as <ou> is realized as [o.U] or as
[a.U], depending on the dialect. Many dialects have lost the difference
between it and monophthong <oo> (e.g., <dood> 'dead' [do:t], now often
[do.Ut] ~ [da.Ut]). <ö> is only used for the short [9] (e.g., <köst>
'fare').  <oe> stands for the long monophthong [ø:] ~ [9:] (e.g., <droeg'>
'dry').  In our dialects there are differences like <beden> [be:d=n] ~
[bE:d=n] 'to pray', 'to request' vs <beyden> [bE.Id=n] ~ [ba.Id=n] 'to
offer'.  (Groningen dialects are [a.U] and [a.I] dialects.)

If there is no such difference in yours, then don't make this difference
artificially in writing.  You'll still be understood.  In fact, most people
in Germany don't make the difference in writing even though they do so in
speaking; they write <beden> for both <beden> and <beyden>.  I do not
advocate this.

Basically, don't write as a diphthong what in your dialect is a monophthong,
and vice versa. The orthographic differences will be no greater than the
phonetic differences.  If I write <boum> and you write *<boom> for 'tree'
we'd still understand each other.  If you make a *phonemic* difference in
your dialect, then represent it in writing.  Do not represent phonetic
"bells and whistles," such as lengthening before sonorants; e.g., <land>
rather than *<laand> for [la.nt] 'land', <hart> rather than *<haart> for
[ha:t] 'heart', and <kray> rather than *<kraay> for [kra.I] 'crow', unless
these clearly contrast with short versions (i.e., [an], [a] and [aI]
respectively in this case).

Good luck!

Reinhard/Ron

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