LL-L "Syntax" 2005.03.21 (04) [E]

Tue Mar 22 05:20:05 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Syntax

Dear Lowlanders,

This inquiry concerns a peculiar, restrictive numeral phrase construction in
Low Saxon (Low German).  I would like to know if any of you can add any
information to it, also if there are similar constructions in related
languages.

The usual construction:
[{num} ({counter}) {noun}]

Examples:
eyn kouken (<een Koken>) one/a (whole) cake
twey jaren ~ jaar* (<twee Jahr(en)*) two years
veyr kinder (<veer Kinner>) four children
vyv appeln (<fief Appeln>) five apples
drey stük** kouken (<dree Stück* Koken>) three pieces of cake
twintig stük** rind (<twintig Stück Rind>) twenty heads of cattle***

NB:
* The word for 'year' may be used in its singular form when counted.
** The plural of _stük_ 'piece' is _stükken_ (<Stücken>) or _stükker_
(<Stücker>), but usually the singular form is used between a numeral and a
noun, though emphatically the plural might be used where it is partitive,
_twey stükken kouken_ (but not as a counter; e.g. *_twintig stükken rind_).
_Stück_ can mean literally 'piece' (partitive) or may be used as a counter
in a few cases (as in 'heads' of cattle) when standing between a numeral and
the modified noun.  (It functions like the generic counters in other
languages: e.g., Chinese 個 (个) _ge_ and Farsi/Persian دانه _dâne_, though
not as extensively.)
*** Note that, unlike the English mass noun "cattle," Low Saxon generic
_rind_ ("bovine animal") is a countable noun.

_Stük_ may be used as a counter, standing for a previously mentioned noun;
e.g.,

Wou veel rinder hebt jy up d'n hov?
(<Woveel Rinner hebbt ji up'n Hoff?>)
How many heads of cattle do you have on the farm?

Also:
Wou veel stük rind hebt jy up d'n hov?
(<Woveel Stück Rind hebbt ji up'n Hoff?>)
How many heads of cattle do you have on the farm?

Answer in either case:
Üm un by twey hunnerd (stük).
(<Üm un bi tweehunnert (Stück)>)
Around two hundred (heads).

Wou veel appeln hest noch oever?
(<Woveel Appeln hest noch över?>)
How many apples do you have left?

Possible answers:
(1)
Twey appeln.
(<Twee Appeln.>)
Two apples.
(2)
Twey.
(<Twee.>)
Two.
(3)
Twey stük.
(<Twee Stück.>)
Two (of them).
(4)
Stükker twey.
(<Stücker twee.>)
Two (of them).

N.B.: *_twey stük appeln_ would be marginal at best, and _twey stük appel_
would mean 'two pieces of apple'.

Wou veel muyler het sey tou voudern?
(<Woveel Müler hett se to fodern?>)
How many mouths does she have to feed?

(1)
Vyv muyler.
(<Fief Müler.>)
Two mouths.
(2)
Vyv.
(<Fief.>)
Five.
(3)
Vyv stük.
(<Fief Stück.>)
Five (of them).
(4)
Stükker vyv.
(<Stücker fief.>)
Five (of them).

The fourth of these is the one I am interested in:
[stükker {num}*]
* where _stükker_ stands for a previously mention noun (phrase)

It occurs also with a specific plural form of _jaar_ 'year'.  Rather that
the usual plural form _jaren_, you use _jaarner_ (<Jahrner> ~ <Johrner>)
*only in this construction*:

[jaarner {num}]
e.g.

Wou lang is hey nu al in Amerika?
(<Wo lang is he nu al in Amerika?>)
How long has he been in America by now?

Possible answers:
(1)
Man eyrst so wat üm twey jaar (~ jaren).
(<Man eerst so wat üm twee Jahr (~ Jahrn).>)
Only for something like a couple of years.
(2)
Man eyrst so wat üm jaarner twey.
(<Man eerst so wat üm Jahrner twee.>)
Only for something like a couple of years.

Questions:

(1) In the constructions [stükker {num}] and [jaarner {num}] I don't feel
comfortable going beyond 10 or at most12.  I could see higher numbers used,
but I'm not sure.  Is it only me, or is that a rule?

(2) I feel that the constructions [stükker {num}] and [jaarner {num}] are
emphatic with regard to the numeral.  Do others agree?

(3) Are there any other nouns or counters that can be used in this fashion?

(4) Are similar constructions used in other Lowlands language varieties?

Thanks in anticipation.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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