LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.04 (10) [E/LS]

Thu May 5 02:58:04 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.04 (02) [A/E]

Hi, Gabriele,

nice to have you back amongst these honourable chatterboxes! There was a
kind of lack, meantimes, because of your absence. We all missed your
"sharp-tongued' comments, off- or on-topic.

But- today you wrote:
(to my 'Hellboessen')
> This would be the same as the Dutch word "helleveeg" for a truly nasty
> woman/wife ("boessen" being a broom, and "veeg" meaning "sweep"). So maybe
> it's a loan from Dutch and that's where the "e" comes from.

I fear you are pretty next to the descendence of the word. Again it could be
influenced by the ancient Netherlandic settlers (beginning at the 13.
century) I had written formerly about. The word 'Hellboessen' I again did
pick up  from that family which had been living in the so called 'Sietland'
for a time and still is familiar with both types, 'origin'
Lower-Elbe-dialect and that special, Dutch-formed variation.

Keep cool the next two or ten months- it's a hard thing to move and emerge
next the very own roots.

Feeling with You, very specially:

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.29 (05) [A/E]

Leeve Reinhard,
(English below)

Du schreevst:

> RUGGE 'back' < OE hrycg  (cf. obsModE rug, ModE ridge; D rug, LS
> rüg(ge(n)),
> G Rücken, Y rukn 'back')

Bii uns seggt de öllern Lüüd (door höör ick ook woll all tau! :-)) (LS)
'[h]rych', recht wat deep innen Kinkeln, guttural. Viellicht dat Woord in
uns Sprook mit dat düllste 'Gutturalum', von wegen dat Anfangen un Opphörn
opp disse Oort. Kiek mol no in miin 'Tuunkeunig', obschounst ick dat door
sülbst ne recht oppe Reigh kriegen dou- door is miin Tungen meist all weller
tou 'houchdüütsch' föör.

Man- dat is noch recht wat viegeliinscher: wii seggt 'ick hevv't in'n Rüch',
man amend ne 'mi deit de Rüch weeh': dat heet denn 'mi deit de Puckel weeh'.
De '[h]rych' is schiints meer or minner de Beschriiven van de Anatomie,
wieldes de 'Puckel' is wat laienhaftig, sou as HG: 'Ast', 'Buckel', E:
'back'.
-----

Hi, Ron,

You wrote:

> RUGGE 'back' < OE hrycg  (cf. obsModE rug, ModE ridge; D rug, LS
> rüg(ge(n)),
> G Rücken, Y rukn 'back')

Here our elder people (me included meanwhile, I fear ;-)) still like to
pronounce it (LS) '[h]rych', very gutturally. Perhaps the most guttural word
(in LS) I know, because it starts and ends this way. Have a look to my
"Wren', though it's hard for even my (High-German-used) tongue to pronounce
it correctly.

It's even more weird: we always should use 'ick hevv't in'n Rüch', but never
'mi deit de Rüch weeh': then we say 'mi deit de Puckel weeh'. The  '[h]rych'
more or less seems to be the anatomical expression, whilst  'Puckel' is
closer to HG: 'Ast', 'Buckel', E: 'back', just an amateurish word of the
common folks....

Greutens/sincerely

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.04 (08) [A/E]

Henry, myn beste Mann!!

Wat denkst Du van mi? Mit souwat jöök ik mi ne avv!

'n 'Huulbössen' hevvt wi woll ook, man- mit sou een Schiet schall mi nymms
komen. Dat loot ick de Fehrs-Gülden mooken (ick segg bloot: 'Klapprekner',
un dat is noch een van de Besten door mang!).
Nee, dit Woord is recht und düchdig wat öller as de 'vacuum-cleaner'.

Very smiling and griemelig Greutens

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: James C Stalker <stalker at msu.edu>
Subject: L-L "Etymology" 2005.05.04 (08) [A/E]

On another list, the orgin of the English term "poppycock" 'nonsense' has
come up.  The possibility that it comes from Dutch and originally meant
"soft feces" has been suggested.  Apparently a Google search supports this
(folk?) etymology, but a standard Dutch dictionary does not provide any
combination of several possibilities, "pap/pappe/pappen' + "kak," that would
mean "soft feces."  Someone suggested that it might have a dialect origin.
Any thoughts on this?

Jim Stalker

James C. Stalker
Department of English
Michigan State University

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Jonny (baven):

> Bii uns seggt de öllern Lüüd (door höör ick ook woll all tau! :-)) (LS)
> '[h]rych', recht wat deep innen Kinkeln, guttural.

Dat is heyl intressant, Jonny.  Ik wul ik kun dat maal hoyren.  Man 'n /hr-/
or /xr-/ bloots in eyn wourd?  Dat lett my wat snaaksch.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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