LL-L "Language acquisition" 2005.05.05 (09) [D/E]

Thu May 5 22:15:55 UTC 2005

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L O W L A N D S - L * 05.MAY.2005 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.05.05 (01) [D]

This message below was meant to be sent off-line to R., as I wrote in it
in Dutch, because I didn't want to embarrass our founder by 'correcting'
his language in public - his Dutch is very good already, and I don't want
to look too nosy, as well. But unfortunately it was sent thru to the list

>From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
>Subject: LL-L "Holidays" 2005.05.04 (11) [D/E/LS]
>
>Dankjewel Reinhard! Je bent zoals altijd goed op de hoogte van allerlei
>gebeurtenissen in allerlei landen. Sta mij toe off list enkele opmerkingen
>te maken bij de Nederlandse tekst hieronder, die bijzonder goed is, maar
>toch enkele oneffenheidjes bevat.
>
>>From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
>>Subject: Holidays
>>
>>Namens de hele lijst stuur ik aan alle onze Nederlandse leden groeten en
>>wensen voor de 60ste Bevrijdingsdag van hun land (5de mei). Ik wens
>[wenste/wilde] dat ik
>>zou kunnen [kon] zeggen dat de wereld [in] deze 60 jaren een lange weg
>vooraan [vooruit] is
>>gegaan, maar helaas heeft [hebben] vrijheid en gerechtigheid in vele
>delen van de
>>wereld nog steeds een lange weg voor hun [voor zich], en
>onverdraagzaamheid wacht op
>>gelegenheden om van zelfgenoegzaamheid en onoplettendheid te profiteren.
>>Niettemin ben ik blij te weten dat tenminste wij Lowlanders ons klein
>[kleine] beetje
>>doen om vriendschap bloesem te laten [te laten bloeien] waar vroeger
>onrecht en vijandigheid de
>>zaden van wantrouwen en haat onder verwandte [verwanten] gestrooid hadden
>[strooiden/hebben gestrooid].
>>Gelukkige 60ste Bevrijdingsdag, lieve Nederlandse vrienden!

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Hoi, Ingmar!

Sorry I carelessly sent it on to the List and may have embarrassed you.  I
for one wasn't embarrassed at all, which is why I wasn't hesitant.  I'd
rather you correct me and at the same time teach others than imagine you and
others giggling in private.  I would rather not have you treat me in an
exceptional way.  If this has anything to do with my "position," then I
would say that I make a conscious effort to be a type of role model (for
want of a more modest term) by showing that making mistakes is normal in the
process of acquiring foreign languages (especially where there is
interference from a closely related language), and that this and being
corrected is nothing to feel embarrassed about.  This is why I often
"butcher" other folks' languages on the List.  It is meant to be an
encouragement for others to use the languages they are studying, and there's
often some entertainment value in it as well.

Apparently I have inadvertently said some outrageous things in Dutch and
Afrikaans, possibly in Scots and Frisian, especially in the early days.  I
found it even more entertaining when well-meaning Lowlanders told me so
privately, very seriously, obviously too polite to "make fun," which speaks
for their levels of sensitivity and caring.   Who said it all needs to be
deadly serious, though?  I'm by no means thick-skinned, but I have decided
to take this sort of thing with a sense of humor and to be grateful rather
than embarrassed.

Clearly, fear of errors and embarrassment are the greatest barriers, if not
enemies, in adult-age language learning.  I have watched many a person
stagnate only because of these barriers, because of their fear of "making
fools of themselves."

There was many a hilerious situation when I first came to the United States
from Australia, having been used mostly to British and Australian English,
to American English only from the media and from contacts with Americans
abroad.  I was aware of most of the usual terminological differences,
certainly could understand most American terms right away, even though I was
hesitant to use them in place of British or Australian ones until I was sick
of being misunderstood or of running the risk of coming across as inflexible
and rude.  (I was mostly hesitant because many American terms some odd with
a non-American pronunciation.)  Admittedly, though, I had a hard time
understanding and remembering a few terms at first.

One of the funniest thing to me -- not to most uptight Americans whom I tell
it -- was the following.  I had a skin rash on my hands (which later turned
out to be an allergy to plastic bags) and saw a doctor about it, an elderly
woman, the first doctor I visited in this country.  She prescribed some sort
of creme and made some additional suggestions.  Later I told my wife about
it on the way to a pharmacy to get the prescription filled.  I told her that
the doctor had suggested to put the ointment on the hands and then wrap the
hands overnight, "in ... in ... sss ... sapan strips."  "In *what?!"  "Sapan
strips, ... I think. You don't need a prescription for them."  "Oh, let's
see if we can find them in the skin care isle of the drugstore."

It turned into a big, long drawn-out production.  We went to three
drugstores but found no sapan strips, so my wife decided to ask a
pharamacist.  (You know that men ask for help in stored just about as often
as they ask for driving directions, don't you?)  "Sapan strips ...," said
the pharmacist, "hmmm ... Let me look in the catalog ... No, I honestly
don't know what that is."  She asked me again what the doctor had told me to
do with those strips, and I explained.  A bit of a light went on in her
face.  "Well, I know that dermatologists often suggest to speed up recovery
by inducing perspiration under Saran Wrap."  "That's it!" I exclaimed, and
my wife had a laughing fit, while the pharmacist tried very hard to keep a
straight face.  (I need to add for the benefit of those of you outside North
America that Saran Wrap is a brand name of a simple kitchen plastic foil,
cling wrap -- very mundane, now a normal word for all brands, just like
"Scotch Tape" is used for all types of "cellotapes.")

This was when I hadn't quite come to understand American rules of
politeness, which include never to laugh about people's mistakes or names or
whatever is odd, certainly not in their presence -- though you would be
considered rude even if that person was not present.

As though this was not funny enough, I decided to entertain the doctor with
this funny story at the next visit.  Rather than laugh, she looked
horrified, called her nurse into the office (as a legal witness) and
apalogized to me about having made assumptions she had had no right to make.
I was baffled, also disappointed that my joke went over like a lead balloon.
Welcome to the letigeous US of A!

As the German saying goes, _Wenn einer eine Reise tut ..._.

So, dear Ingmar, I very much appreciate your help.  Thanks for having taken
the time.  It's a good idea to communicate with me privately by writing to
my private address (sassisch at yahoo.com).  This way you will avoid
misunderstandings.  (However, once in a while people send stuff to my
private address that they mean to go to the List ...  Arrrgh!)

Cheerio!
Reinhard/Ron

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