LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.16 (07) [A/E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.16 (02) [E]


Paul Finlow-Bates wrote:
"I'd never associated "fossick" with "versoek" before, though it seems
pretty clear now you mention it! Thanks for that."

If I may put on my Cornish hat here: _fossick_ is well known in Australian
and New Zealand English and it derives from (still current) Cornish English
_fossick_ meaning "to scrabble for things". Originally it referred to a
method in mining, but then generalised to mean running one's fingers through
places in a search (i.e., in a drawer for a tie, in a cupboard for something
particular).

It may have a relationship to _versoek_ in the widest sense, but it's well
known as Cornish English.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.16 (02) [E]

Dear Luc, Criostóir, Lllistees
Such a common, daily used word like 'us' coming from Dutch, West-Flemish
or other foreign influences seems rather strange to me, although it is
possible of course. But 'us' is a perfect English pronoun too, albeit not
a possessive one, and I believe it to be much more plausible to be derived
from the indigenous 'us'. Mixing up pronouns happens a lot, think of 'you'
where historically there was a divergence between 'ye' and 'you' (and
thou, thee). In Stellingwarven Low Saxon and some Groningen Low Saxon
dialects, 'jow' [jou] or 'joe' [ju:] has replaced other second person
pronouns as well - like 'ie' [i:] or 'jie' [ji:] (like West Lauwers
Frisian 'jo' - polite/formal sec pers pronoun) but I wouldn't dare to
claim English influence here, because of the perfect agreement.

Btw, both English and Dutch gave up 'thou', 'du' etc
for 'you', 'gij', 'jij', 'u'. I always assumed this was because of
courtesy, probl. some kind of influence of French 'vous', although it has
preserved 'tu' of course, so that wouldn't make so much sense...

Ingmar

>Luc Hellinckx schreef:
>Quite intriguing what you wrote about the Eastern Midlands. English 'our',
>being pronounced like _us_, would certainly refer to a coastal variety of
>Dutch, if ever there was Dutch influence. Nowadays, West Flemish still has
>_oes_/_uus_ instead of standard Dutch _ons_ (= _our_ (E)). Denasalization
>also happened in _goeze_ (West Flemish), _goose_ (E), _gans_ (D). But
>surely Frisian and Low Saxon may also have had, or still have this feature

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.16 (02) [E]

Haai, Elsie

Onderwerp: Etymology

> But the spelling in Afrikaans, of course, is bye'korf'; rather than
> "corf",  y'all.

Dankie, Elsie, vir die regstelling, en jammer oor die fout. BTW, Kaaiings
smaak darem lekker nê! Weet jy, die woord kom nie in my woordeboek voor nie!

Die Uwe,
Mark

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