LL-L "Music" 2005.05.25 (05) [E]

Thu May 26 01:12:37 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Music" 2005.05.24 (05) [E]

In my German conversation group, our "Wort der Woche" recently was "der
Dudelsack"; it just seems to sum up the instrument so well.  Are there any
special Lowlands words?

Paul

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Music" 2005.05.24 (07) [E]

Much Indo-European music was basicaly modal, often pentatonic.  The
emergence of the chromatic scale in the Renaissance slowly squeezed a lot of
traditional music out.  The old scales and modes survived in the westernmost
so-called "Celtic " areas, so we tend to associate the sounds with there.

Paul

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From: Dave Singleton <davidsin at pt.lu>
Subject: LL-L "Music" 2005.05.25 (04) [E]

Hello music lovers

> From: Szelog, Mike <Mike.Szelog at cfgcustomers.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Music" 2005.05.25 (01) [E]
>
> Hi all,
>
> CriostÃ³ir wrote in part -
>
> (I have been told the uileann pipes are the only
>
>> genuinely Irish instrument, but I am no musician so I cannot comment),
>> although I would have thought the bodhrÃ¡n at least was particularly
>> Celtic.
>
> I've heard that too - the pipes themselves not an Irish invention, but
> the
> concept of the bellows being done by the elbow (hence the name uileann
> pipes) seems to be rather unique to Ireland; a way for the player to also
> sing to the tunes he/she was playing.

I have to set the record a tad straighter ---- bellows pipes were known
by Praetorius and were described by him in his epic music book Sygmata
-- it is believed that the bellows came from east of Poland and/or was
invented for the noblesse Ã  la Musette du Cour. The Irish pipes
originally were War pipes in the same way as the Scottish Highland pipes
-- both mouth blown. The Scottish and/or Lowland/Border region was a
hive of activity in pipe making which invented the Pastoral pipes
(bellows blown with a range of 2 octaves) to try and combat the invasion
by the violin which brought with it too much Italian style music. This
pipe was used in England (London's theatres in 1729 used it) and it
found it's way to Ireland where it was improved to eventually give
Uillean pipes.

> The bodhran is *very* similar to Native American drums in construction
> (at
> least on a traditional Native drum. Also similar to other drums from
> around
> the world, but the playing style seems to me to be a very "Celtic" way of
> playing, i.e. using a two sided striker (I want to say it's called a
> kipeen)and also striking the rim as part of the playing technique.

don't forget the Celtic Harp and Turlough o'Carolan a famed player and
composer

> I've noticed that too in early music, somewhat Middle Eastern sounding
> - I
> suspect there was quite a bit of influence on Western musical
> tradition from
> the Moors who probably brought the 'oud with themwhich developed into the
> lute here in the West.
>
> Mike S

can't really comment here at the moment except to say that Western music
really began with the early Christian Church, which in the early times
would really not like anything to do with that which was not Roman or
Greek and this influence remained well into the Renaissance.

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Music
>
> Hi, Mike!
>
>> The bodhran is *very* similar to Native American drums in
>> construction (at
>> least on a traditional Native drum.
>
> I believe there are several Siberian varieties of it.  Also, there
> used to
> be a drum or tambourin on which you beat with the fingers of the hand
> with
> which you hold it (or rather balance it).  This is found with various
> permutations through the Iranic world, Central Asia (_dap_, _daf_, etc.),
> Siberia and North America, especially in Arctic regions.
>
>> I've heard that too - the pipes themselves not an Irish invention,
>> but the
>> concept of the bellows being done by the elbow (hence the name uileann
>> pipes) seems to be rather unique to Ireland; a way for the player to
>> also
>> sing to the tunes he/she was playing.
>
> But don't the Northumbrian smallpipes use this technique also?  Is it
> imported from Ireland?  What about the Scottish and Border smallpipes?

Yep, both cauld wind pipes (bellows blown) the Scottish smallpipe being
a parallel bore (Ã  la Northumbrian smallpipe) whereas the Border pipes
has a conical bore ( Ã  la Scottish Great Pipe)

> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
Further info can be found here:
http://www.nspipes.co.uk/nsp/ww3hist.htm  (smallpipes)
and  here
http://www.mark-gibbens.co.uk/bagpipes/about.htm   (English bagpipes)

Dave Singleton

----------

From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "Music" 2005.05.25 (04) [E]

From: Andrys Onsman
Re: Music

Hi Mike, Christoir, Ron et al
I suspect drums, or hitting anything that reveberates to keep time for
music and dancing will be evident wherever humans gather. Circumpolar
Indigenous peoples (in particular) depend on a steady beat in
shamanic/ecstatic practice. So do the youngsters  dancing to trance
music (but a different kind of ecstacy). It seems essential and timeless.
The earliest instruments found in Fryslan were bone flutes. It's has
always intrigued me what kind of music they made, what sounds would
please their pre-historic ears, and whether it links directly to drum
and fife music of today.

Regards
Andrys

>> The bodhran is *very* similar to Native American drums in
>> construction (at
>> least on a traditional Native drum.
>
> I believe there are several Siberian varieties of it.  Also, there
> used to
> be a drum or tambourin on which you beat with the fingers of the hand
> with
> which you hold it (or rather balance it).  This is found with various
> permutations through the Iranic world, Central Asia (_dap_, _daf_, etc.),
> Siberia and North America, especially in Arctic regions.
>
>> I've heard that too - the pipes themselves not an Irish invention,
>> but the
>> concept of the bellows being done by the elbow (hence the name uileann
>> pipes) seems to be rather unique to Ireland; a way for the player to
>> also
>> sing to the tunes he/she was playing.
>
> But don't the Northumbrian smallpipes use this technique also?  Is it
> imported from Ireland?  What about the Scottish and Border smallpipes?
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Music

Thanks for the additional info, Dave!

I've heard about a similar theory, namely that Germany got the bagpipes from
Slavonic people, not necessarily from Poles but more likely from Slavs
farther west, the ones that got absorbed by Germans.  The Sorbs have their
own type of bagpipes also, similar to the various Polish types, mostly still
with a goat skin (including legs) as bellows, many of them with beautifully
carved goat heads either as a part of the drone pipe or separate.  It's
rather similar also to the Moravian and Czech _dudy_
(http://www.histnastroje.gajdy.cz/zvetsene/dudy-moravske.jpg,
http://www.usd.edu/smm/Bockbagpipe.html).  The usual name is _kozoÅ‚_
(pronounced ['kOzOU], something like "KOzzow") 'billy goat' (pl. _ kozoÅ‚a_ ~
_kÃ³zÅ‚a_ ['kOz(O)wa], consistent with goat-based names in other Slavonic
languages, including _gajda_ etc.).  An alternative name is _dudy_ (pl.
_dudow_).  Its German name is _Bock_ 'billy goat' (pl. _BÃ¶cke_).

Hey, Dave, it's not too far to travel from Luxembourg to SlÄ›pe/Schleife,
region of BÄ›Å‚a Woda/WeiÃŸwasser (where my grandma went to school).  It is
today's center of kozoÅ‚ making and playing. They even still play the kozoÅ‚
during church services and teach kozoÅ‚ playing in schools there, also in a
few other Lusatian places.  SlÄ›pe/Schleife remains predominantly Roman
Catholic and has resisted various innovations more successfully than other
Lusatian communities (most of which are predominantly Protestant), which is
why it's the place to go for traditional culture.

There are CDs with traditional Sorbian music, including kozoÅ‚ music, and
various places that you can order them from.

If you are interested, you could contact the following:
http://ski.sorben.com/site/docs/german/index.htm
http://ski.sorben.com/site/docs/english/index.htm

Hey, Andrys!  Great to hear from you.

Sure, a lot can be coincidental, and, after all, Shamanism predates all
other religions all over Eurasia, Africa and the Americas.  What we see of
it today is just a scattering of remnants.  (Isn't European Wicca and the
like Shamanism of sorts?)  However, the Siberian, Alaskan, North Canadian
and Greenlandic drums are very, very similar.  Besides, IÃ±upiaq people have
lived (and intermarried) in both Siberia and Alaska for thousands of years,
so there may have been an active bridge between Eurasia and North America
for a long time.  On the other hand, skin drums and flutes (besides the
didgeridoo) are not found in traditional Australia, which has been isolated
for so long.  Percussion istruments there are limited to trunks, sticks,
boomerangs and the like.  (Or am I wrong there?)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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