LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.09 (01) [E]

Wed Nov 9 16:28:09 UTC 2005

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09 November 2005 * Volume 01
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From: Thomas Byro <greenherring at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.07 (10) [E]

Hi

I saw a depiction of an old map of Sweden once where the northern half
of the country was labeled as :Finnmark."

Tom Byro

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.08 (01) [E]

As an interesting aside to this, I note that the Finnish for German is 
Saksaa.  Curious that it should be "Saxons" that give the language it's 
Finnish name.  Though probably no more curious than the Allemanni giving the 
French name.

Paul

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.08 (01) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>kaupunki <

Now isn't that just a beautiful word!

 I shall use that in training to show teachers that with a bit of lateral
thinking they can connect it to London

???????????????

Can you?

Heather

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Tom (above):

> I saw a depiction of an old map of Sweden once where the northern half
> of the country was labeled as :Finnmark."

Norway still has one.  I believe the one in Sweden came to be renamed to 
Lapland.

Paul (above):

> As an interesting aside to this, I note that the Finnish for German is 
> Saksaa.
> Curious that it should be "Saxons" that give the language it's Finnish 
> name.
> Though probably no more curious than the Allemanni giving the French name.

Well, think about it: Hanseatic Trading League (centered in Lübeck) 
dominating the Baltic Sea, mostly run by Saxon merchants speaking _Sassysch_ 
...

The name "Saxon" was used for centuries for what is now Northern Germany and 
parts of the Netherlands, even until after the name was hijacked by a 
non-Saxon region in the 16th century.  It was used side by side with 
_düdesch_ even after Germanization and Neerlandization had begun.  To people 
in Finland, Scandinavia and the Baltic countries, (the real) Saxony 
represented the gate to Germany (which became official much later).

English: Germany - German - Sweden - Swedish/Swede
Finnish: Saksa - saksalainen - Ruotsi* - ruotsalainen*
Estonian: Saksamaa** - saksalane - Rootsi* - rootslane*

* reference to the Rus, the Swedish "vikings" that used to dominate Russia
** _-maa_ 'land'

A Finnish derivation:
saksanhirvi ("Saxony's deer") 'hart', 'red deer'

Heather (above):

> >kaupunki <
>
> Now isn't that just a beautiful word!

Isn't it, though?  If you have to or want to say it, stress the first 
syllable and try not to aspirate the "k" and "p".  "Capital" is nice too: 
_pääkaupunki_ (_pää_ 'head').  For 'town' and 'city', Estonian has _linn_, 
cognate of Finnish _linna_ 'castle' (as in the Finnish city of Savonlinna, 
"Savo Castle"), and 'capital' is _pealinn_ ("head city < castle") in 
Estonian.  (As you can see, Estonian is "clipped Finnish" ... ;-) )

If you enjoy the word _kaupunki_, Heather, I suggest you consider a vacation 
trip to Finland to get your fill of this and better, plus a gorgeous country 
with an ancient tradition of communing with nature.  I had lovely, memorable 
times there.  And whatever certain snobbish French and Italian politicians 
say, don't believe anything you hear about "bad cooking" in Finland!  I had 
some of my most enjoyable meals in Finland, and I am a bit of a gourmet. 
(Same thing with regard to England, being nothing but hasty judgment based 
on 1950s "convenience foods," canned and packaged ingredients thrown 
together by big-city folks, while real traditional English and other British 
cuisine has a lot of wonderful things to offer.)

>  I shall use that in training to show teachers that with a bit of lateral
> thinking they can connect it to London

If they don't have the lateral thinking skills, I trust you will show them 
how it's done, being a seasoned Lowlander by now.

Best wishes,
Reinhard/Ron 

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