LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.21 (03) [E/Spanish]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 21 November 2005 * Volume 03
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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.19 (01) [E/Papiamentu]


Re all the talk of Papiamentu:

In light of our recent discussions on language normalisation versus language 
revival, it may be instructive to note that whilst Dutch is still the 
nominal official language (and the language of instruction in secondary 
schools, I believe) in Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, Papiamentu is the de 
facto working language of all three islands. Therefore it represents an 
interesting and useful example of language normalisation.

As far as I am aware, the actual language hierarchy of the ABC islands is 
Papiamentu first and foremost, then English because of the high volume of 
North American tourists passing through the islands (and, as we know, most 
Anglophone tourists cannot conceive of having to use any language other than 
English), and then lastly Dutch as an auxiliary language for those 
(primarily in the civil service) who need to communicate regularly with the 
"metropole".

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Críostóir.

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.19 (02) [E]


Ron wrote:
"In other words, I believe we mustn't underestimate the roles of the 
(usually European) power elites and their agents in the genesis of such 
language varieties. The "seeds," namely the basic vocabulary and grammatical 
structure, of such varieties are quite likely to have been carried from 
colony to colony by Europeans (or people of European descent) with or 
without the aid of relocated slaves or relocated non-Europeans that
were conversant in another contact variety."

I'm actually researching the history of language use amongst Australian 
Aboriginals at the moment, and what you say here is very relevant. As you 
know, indigenous Australians are typically some of the most multi-lingual 
peoples in the world, with trilingualism usual and quadrilingualism or 
quintilingualism not uncommon. English, aside from a few phonemes that do 
not occur in Australian languages, does not present any great problems to 
most Aboriginals.

What is striking, however, that in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries 
Aboriginals were usually addressed in a sort of baby talk by Europeans, 
based on the racist prejudice that Aboriginals were incapable of higher 
thought and so needed a "simplified" form of the language. Aboriginals 
learnt this baby talk and perceived it to be _the_ English language. Then, 
when they used it in front of Europeans the Europeans took it as evidence of 
the Aboriginal linguistic ineptitude and racial inferiority!

Talk about European power elites setting up a self-serving and 
self-fulfilling prophecy!

Go raibh maith agat,

Críostóir.

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.20 (03) [E]


Ron wrote:
(I think that the administration saw Iryan Jaya as a separate entity,
despite the presence of "Malays" there, especially in coastal towns. In
fact, culturally and linguistically it ought to be a part of Papua-New
Guinea.)

There's no need to be cautious. There's no "ought" about it. Culture and 
linguistics are not politics. Bar a peninsula in the extreme east, it makes 
no sense to view West Papua and Papua New Guinea in seclusion from each 
other from a sociolinguistics point of view, except in terms of 
superstrates.

I understand that Malay / Indonesian is the lingua franca in West Papua due 
to Indonesian influence, and that many Papuans in Jayapura (whose parents 
migrated from the interior of New Guinea) now have Malay as their mother 
tongue. The same situation pertained (and probably still pertains) in East 
Timor, due to the same set of circumstances.

I do not know the extent of Tok Pisin in West Papua, if it has any presence 
there at all. I think most in the Papuan elite there know their mother 
tongue (a Papuan or Austronesian language), Malay, and English, in that 
order. Most people probably only know their mother tongue, and a large 
minority (perhaps a third) might be proficient enough in Malay as well to be 
termed bilinguals in it as well as their mother tongue.

Go raibh maith agat,

Críostóir.

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.19 (01) [E/Papiamentu]

Ingmar preguntó: could people who know Spanish or Portuguese follow our
little dialogue in Papiamento?

Sí, más o menos.  Es un tanto dificil porque la ortografía es diferente, y
uno tiene que tratar de pronunciar las palabras para reconocerlas.

Mark Brooks aka Marcos Arroyos

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.20 (04) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language varieties
>
> Hi, Heather!
>
>> Or  just the sailors who sailed the ships.
>
>
> Sure.  I would imagine that it contributed some, but it would have
> been less as far as the various settled populations are concerned.  In
> fact, it would be interesting to find out about linguae francae among
> sailors in the olden days, given that many crews were multilingual,
> also given that many Low Saxon sea shanties contain English bits, not
> just words but whole phrases, sentences and choruses.*
>
> *Example:
>
>   Ick hew mol en Hamborger Veermaster sehn,
>   to my hoodah, to my hoodah!
>   De Masten so scheef as den Schipper sien Been,
>   to my hoodah, hoodah ho!
>   Refrain:
>      Blow boys blow, for Californio.
>      There is plenty of gold so I am told
>      on the banks of Sacramento.
>      Blow boys blow, for Californio.
>      There is plenty of gold so I am told
>      on the banks of Sacramento.
>
>   Dat Deck weer von Isen, vull Schiet un vull Smeer,
>   to my hoodah, to my hoodah!
>   Dat weer de Schietgäng ehr schönstes Pläseer,
>   to my hoodah, hoodah ho!
>   Refrain

...etc.

Hmmm! Doesn't this seem like a song for a Low Saxon speaker to sing,
with the repetitive lines and the chorus in English?

So the English seems to be at the points where all join in.

It's as if on a linguistically mixed crew, English is the language
they're all happy to sing in.

Would that be right? And why?

I can't make out all the Low Saxon but it certainly looks like an
amusing song...!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cochlear_my_eye/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Mark:

> Sí, más o menos.  Es un tanto dificil porque la ortografía es diferente, y
> uno tiene que tratar de pronunciar las palabras para reconocerlas.

¡Gracias, Marcos! Tu descripción probablemente se aplica a todas las idiomas 
de tipo pidgin y criolla. Yo tenía el mismo "problema" cuando vi papiamentu 
y ladino (judeo-español) escritos por primera vez.

Sandy:

> It's as if on a linguistically mixed crew, English is the language
> they're all happy to sing in.
>
> Would that be right? And why?

I assume it's because some sort of working English was the non-Hispanic 
maritime lingua franca and most shantys were in English.

Note that all the Low Saxon parts in the song are for solo voice and all the 
English parts are for the chorus, that the work shanty pattern is followed 
faithfully.  The solo part tends to have mocking or criticizing words, and 
the chorus acts as the "heave-ho" part for the work crew.

> I can't make out all the Low Saxon but it certainly looks like an
> amusing song...!

It describes life on a ship from hell (not literally), on which everything 
is in disrepair and filthy, food is rotten and maggot-laden, liquor is to be 
had only on Christmas Eve, and the crew is shanghaied.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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