LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.10.06 (06) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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06 October 2005 * Volume 06
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.10.06 (02) [E]

Hi Gary
I just saw your Proto Germanic course at your home page. Cool!
I sent the link to your page through to my fellow members of the Folkspraak
Yahoo Group, because most members are very much interested in Proto
Germanic but don't know a lot about it yet. You can visit Folkspraak at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/

Regards
Ingmar

>Gary Taylor wrote:>

>http://hometown.aol.com/taylor16471/myhomepage/index.html

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.10.06 (02) [E]


Re Northern versus southern English: I think a very important point that's 
being overlooked is the very strong Scandinavian influence in the north. 
This is seen in vocabulary, but it also affects pronunciation.  The k -ch 
mutation was "arrested" in the north by Scandianvian effects (kirk v. 
church, Rigg v. ridge etc.).  I believe the Northern clipped definite 
article "trouble at t'mill" arose form confusion between the "normal" 
Germanic def. art at the front and the Scandinavian habit of attaching it at 
the end.

Paul

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.10.06 (02) [E]

Very intersting! But I have to add here that the Western parts of the
Netherlands, in which the major cities Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague,
also have those broad diphthongs [Qu], [au], [@u] for [o:], [Ei], [ai] for
[e:] etc. so maybe the contrast is rather coastal versus inland than North
and South, at least for several features.

The Northermost Low Saxon (coastal) dialects in the Netherlands, those of
Groningen and Northern Drenthe, are also quite similar to the Northern
German Low Saxon varieties. And the inland German Low Saxon dialects, of
Westphalia etc, are like the Eastern Dutch LS ones.

Ingmar

Gary Taylor wrote:
>just listened through the majority of the non-English
>Anniversary versions of the Wren and the thing that
>struck me most (being English) is how they compare to
>English dialects. What I've (personally) found is that
>Dutch and Netherlands Saxon versions (to me) sound
>like North England / Scottish English dialects -
>mainly through (colourful) intonation /pure / and
>clipped vowels whereas Low Saxon versions from Germany
>tend to sound more like Southern England English
>versions mainly through (flatter) intonation and
>especially the diphthongs which are especially
>reminiscent of Southern English diphthongs.
>
>I'd like to hear your opinions, and if you agree. I
>always would have thought that the North of England
>would have sounded more like the North of the Low
>Saxon area (i.e. North Germany) and the South like the
>South, but to me this doesn't seem the case. Would be
>nice to hear from non-(native) English speakers to see
>if they feel the same as me.

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.10.03 (08) [E]

>Touching on the observations below, I'd bet the Etruscans spoke a
Berber-like tongue.<

The Welsh still do! And the Irish Which just goes to show that in every
legend lies a germ of truth
"I raise this point to mention the Irish record that their second 'wave' of
settlers to their island were Numidians - People of Nemed"

Welsh & Irish have a IE/Celtic vocabulary superimposed on a non IE grammar
that still bears relationship to Berber & Coptic.

So far although it had been tried, the same grammatical patterns have not
been detected in Etruscan or Basque.

Heather

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.10.03 (08) [E]

>The surviving indicators of common terms, ie. beech, salmon,
turtle, eel etc is supposed to narrow down possible point of origin of IE
peoples to the Baltic area, isn't it?<

East of the Black Sea: South of the Caspian but west of the Aral.??????

Heather 

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