LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.07 (11) [E]

Sat Oct 8 05:04:45 UTC 2005

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 07 October 2005 * Volume 11
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From: Kevin and Cheryl Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.07 (08) [E]

> When I was a kid (eons ago) we had a really hard type of candy, going
> almost
> in the direction of the American jawbreaker, called _Dauerlutscher_
> ("lasting sucker") in German.  Some people call all types of hard candy by
> that name.

Then there is the type of large lollipop called an "all-day sucker".

There's also a type of sucker that looks like a baby's pacifier - truly a 
"gob-stopper" (mouth plug) if there ever was one.

Kevin Caldwell

----------

From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.07 (08) [E]

Reinhard/Ron says:
>When I was a kid (eons ago) we had a really hard type of candy, going
>almost in the direction of the American jawbreaker, called _Dauerlutscher_
>("lasting sucker") in German.  Some people call all types of hard candy by
>that name.

Yes, that reminds me, my thumb sucking brother was a "vingerlotscher" and
that word came clearly from my Twentse family. Jacqueline

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Kevin, above you mentioned "lollipop," in some English-speaking areas 
(apparently all outside the U.S.) abbreviated to "lolly."  I suppose German 
and Low Saxon made it into _Lolli_, meaning "lollipop," a candy (sweet) on a 
stick.  Apparently, the origin of the word is not known, but it is assumed 
to have originated in child's language.  What is also interesting is that in 
English varieties of Australia and New Zealand "lolly" means what in 
American English is candy (without sticks), though usually excluding things 
like chocolate bars (which in US English can also be "candy").

And then there's "candy."  It's related to German _Kandis_ or 
_Kandiszucker_, in some areas _Kandelzucker_ (_Zucker_ 'sugar').  The German 
word(s) and originally also the English word mean "crystallized sugar" (but 
in American English extended to "sweets").  In the early days after its 
adoption in German-speaking areas, it was known as _Zuckerkandi(t)_, and in 
some dialects it is still known as _Zuckerkand(is)_.  Most Low Saxon 
dialects of Germany have adopted the German words, but in Eastern Friesland 
it is known by an unrelated word (though semantically related one, as we 
will see later): _kluntje_ ~ _klüntje_, which I assume alludes to pieces or 
lumps.  (They are the ones that with heavy cream rest on the bottom of a 
good East Frisian cup of tea and must not be stirred but must be approached 
by sipping.)  The word is supposed to have entered English from French 
(_(sucre) candi_) in the 15th century.  German is supposed to have borrowed 
it from Italian (_(zucchero) candi_) in the 17th century.  Many etymological 
works describe the word as going back to Arabic ﻗﻨﺪ _qand_.  However, the 
_Oxford English Dictionary_ got it right: it did come from Arabic, but 
Arabic borrowed it from Persian (Farsi ﻗﻨﺪ _qand_), having the adjectival 
form ﻗﻨﺪي _qandî_ in both languages.  These words are either related to or 
derived from Sanskrit खण्ड _khaNDa_, which means 'fragment', 'piece', 
'chunk', derived from the root खण्ड्- _khaND-_ 'to fragment', 'to break up', 
'to crush'.  (So this "candy" is adjectival in origin and modifies "sugar," 
thus "fragmented -> chunky sugar.")  I might add that due to the influence 
of Persian (especially Farsi and Tadjik) this word has been spread by 
Islamic Turkic peoples as far east as into China and by Arabic speakers as 
far as Portugal.

Jacqueline:

> Reinhard/Ron says:
> >When I was a kid (eons ago) we had a really hard type of candy, going
> >almost in the direction of the American jawbreaker, called 
> >_Dauerlutscher_
> >("lasting sucker") in German.  Some people call all types of hard candy 
> >by
> >that name.
>
> Yes, that reminds me, my thumb sucking brother was a "vingerlotscher" and
> that word came clearly from my Twentse family. Jacqueline

Also _Fingerlutscher_ ("thumb sucker") in German and in Low Saxon. 
_Lutschen_ cannot be attested very far back, only to the late 18th century, 
and it is believed to be onomatopoetic in origin (in imitation of a sucking 
sound).  While a _Fingerlutscher_ is a person, a _Lutscher_ is a thing: a 
pacifier (a "binky" in English baby talk), which in Northern German tends to 
be called _Schnuller_ and in Low Saxon _Suger_ ~ _Süger_ ("sucker").

I have a feeling that _lutschen_ in Low Saxon is a German loan.  I perceive 
it as "foreign," would be inclined to say _nuckern_ or _nuckeln_ instead and 
in Missingsch and Missingsch-based German _nuckeln_ (assumedly both 
onomatopoetic as well).  In the north we call a baby bottle _Nuckelflasche_, 
and an alternative name for 'pacifier' is _Nuckel_.  You see, _nuckeln_ is 
the characteristic type of sucking and its sound that infants produce 
("nook, nook, nook ...", the suffixes _-r-_ and _-l-_ being frequentive or 
continuative).

However, using the verbs _nuckern_ or _nuckeln_ with regard to a person that 
is not a baby is derogatory or jocular, the normal, polite choice being 
_lutschen_, and the hoity-toity weird and clinical choice being _saugen_ 
("to suck"), Low Saxon _sugen_.   For us it is normal to say that an infant 
or a toddler _nuckert_ ~ _nuckelt_ on a nipple, bottle, pacifier or thumb, 
as does a baby animal.  But in German it is not polite enough to be written 
unless in direct speech quotes (while Low Saxon has more freedom).  The 
casual written choice would be _lutschen_ and the "scientific"-sounding one 
_saugen_ (LS _sugen_).

So, when we say that someone _nuckelt_ on a piece of candy or lollipop it is 
likely to be making fun of him or her, implying that he or she goes on and 
on sucking like an infant.  If kids make fun of one of theirs that sucks his 
or her thumb they are likely to use _nuckeln_ also to dramatize the 
babyishness.  They might call him or her _Nuckelkind_ or _Nuckelbaby_, a boy 
perhaps _Nuckelheini_ (< Heinrich = Henry) and a girl _Nuckelliese_ (< 
Elisabet), also if they whine, cry, throw tantrums or otherwise behave in a 
babyish manner -- or simply because the other kids pick on him or her.

Isn't it amazing how we can keep each other going with this etymology stuff?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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