LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.14 (02) [D/E]

Fri Oct 14 18:19:51 UTC 2005

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L * 14 October 2005 * Volume 02
======================================================================

From: "jonny" <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.13 (01) [E/LS/German]

Dear Ron,

you wrote about _Wiemen_:
> I am very mystified and curious about the origin of this _wym(en)_.  So
> far I have found nothing that looks like being related in older language
> varieties.
Cognates *could* be: G: 'weben', E: 'to weave', because the archaic G:
'Webstuhl', E: 'weavers chair' was made of the same 'strips of wood', which
here is still in use as 'Wiemen' (together with LS: 'Rick', meaning nearly
the same).

Have a look into the 'Herkunfts-WÃ¶rterbuch' (DUDEN).
'weben' they say is a word of indoeurop. origin which can be found in many
varieties. Couldn't there be any relationship to the way people used to
build houses, using 'strips of wood' and closing them with a mixture of clay
and straw? Just a penny for it....

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

----------

From: "Cullin Feddema" <cufeddema at yahoo.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.13 (01) [E/LS/German]

Beste lezers,

Ron/Reinhard schreef:

I am very mystified and curious about the origin of this _wym(en)_. So
far I have found nothing that looks like being related in older language
varieties. Are there any cognates in other Lowlands language varieties?
(I would expect *_wijm_ in Dutch, *_wym_ in Afrikaans.) Might the word
originate in a contraction, such as *_wÃƒÂ®r-m_ (Old Saxon _wÃƒÂ®r_ 'rod',
related to English "wire," cf. Modern Low Saxon _wy(e)r_ ( [vi:3`])
'wire' (~ _draat_ ~ ~ )?

Van Dale's groot woordenboek der Nederlandse taal, 12e druk, geeft 'wijm'
met de
betekenissen 'wilg' en 'wilgenteen' en het adjectief 'wijmen'. Als
etymologie geeft
het < Latijn. 'vimen' (rijshout).

Vriendelijke groeten,

Cullin

----------

From: "Luc Hellinckx" <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Ron en Franz,

Saxon _wym_ or _wymen_  must be related with Latin _vimen_, meaning "rod" in
general, and "twig of a willow tree" in particular. That's probably the
kind of stuff that was used to make a wattle. Brabantish also has the word
_waÃ«m(en)_, but still in its original meaning.
There's other forms too, like:
_wij_, _wee_, _wieÃ«_, _wedde_, _wie_, _wiej_ (in use in the Eastern part
of the Netherlands), German _weide_, English _withy, withe_. The
Indo-European root would mean something like "weave", and can also be
found in Gothic _gawidan_ ("to connect"(E)) and Lithuanian _vyti_ ("to
weave"(E)).

Kluge adds this:
Vergleichbar sind (*wiet-u-): gr. ItÃ©a, apreuÃŸ. witwan n., lett.
vÃ®tuOls (lit. zilvÃ¬tis m. "Grauweide"), Ã¤hnlich russ. vetlÃ¡. Ferner
als "Weidenzweig, Rute", auch "Ranken u.Ã¤." ai. vetasÃ¡- m. "Rotang",
avest. vaEtaii- "Weidengerte", l. vitis "Ranke, Rebe", kymr. gwden
"Weidenzweig", lit. vytÃ¬s "Rute, Gerte", akslav. vEtvi "Zweig, Rute".

Another word _wis_ (B) ("bundle of straw", ~ Latin _virga_) seems to be
semantically intertwined (sic *s*) with _wijm_, because it also used to
denote a twig.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

----------

From: "Jo Thys" <jo.thijs1 at telenet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.13 (01) [E/LS/German]

Hoi Ron, Franz

>Are there any cognates in other Lowlands language varieties?
>(I would expect *_wijm_ in Dutch, *_wym_ in Afrikaans.)  >

Dutch _wijm_is a sort of willow. _Wieme_ is de space in the chimney used for
smoking meat, where a willow wicker-work is placed. It's origin would have
been lat. vimen (wickerwork, shoot).

Maybe Martin 's bird was urged to fly away through the chimney, so Martin
had enough room to come in.

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Jo Thys.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, everyone, for the interesting information!

Jo, I don't think _wym(e(n))_ referred to 'chimney', certainly not in the
recent past.  Going by all the other information, it seems that it
originally denoted some sort of elevated shelving or hanging rods
(possibly initially for storing and cold-smoking preserved food between
hearth and smokehole) that chickens liked to use as roosts, later to come
to mean '(man-made) roost' and thereafter 'loft'.

The base word for 'willow' is _wichel_, a metathesized derivation of _wilge_.

Thanks and regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================