LL-L "Language use" 2005.09.01 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language use" [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language use
>
> Hi, Críostóir!
>
> I certainly know where Ingmar and you are coming from, and I agree with
> you.  However, note that even our Jonny has resorted to writing more
> English, and he used to be a main proponent of more linguistic diversity.
>
> I can not speak for Jonny and others.  As for myself, there are times in
> which I feel I must use English to reach all subscribers on List matters.
> Wearing my private hat, I like to use Low Saxon (sometimes also dabbling
> in Dutch, Afrikaans, Scots, Frisian, or whatever).  I would do so more
> often.  However, especially in using LS I often have my doubts as to how
> many people actually understand me.  I guess this doubt is due to meager
> response.  Oftentimes, postings in LS get no response, or the response is
> "I don't understand. Could someone translate?"  The alternative is to add
> at least an English summary, which means more time and effort.  I am sure
> we would use our respective language varieties more often if we know that
> a good number of people actually read and understand what we write.

I remember a time when there used to be really a lot of Scots written on the 
list, but then there was someone other than me who was happy to write it 
copiously and could be depended on to actually give an answer. There are 
other Scots speakers on the list, but not currently very active.

It does seem pointless writing to the list in Scots when the subject isn't 
Scots-specific. All it seems to achieve is excluding a large number of 
subsrcribers from the discussion. Even if it's about Scots, many subscribers 
who wouldn't read Scots would be interested in the posting for the 
linguistic or cultural content, so it seems the choice is between giving 
examples of Scots and actually being able to talk about the language to a 
wide audience.

So it degenerates to postings in English about Scots or with examples of 
Scots literature. Maybe if I started to write in Scots again more Scots 
readers would come out of the woodwork? Or maybe these postings would just 
be read by a narrower audience who _don't_ respond, which isn't achieving 
much.

Maybe Lowlands-L is a metaphor for the wider world - if you don't support 
your language on the list, it will fall out of use!

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Þjóðríkr Þjóðreksson <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LLL language use


Back from my first week in Amsterdam, and already the Hollandic is intruding 
my language very strongly :s
Eventhough I don't want it, I talk "je" most of time, and -ke diminutives 
have already vanished too... ("jou" doesn't really come out of my mouth yet, 
fortunately :) "u" will still do fine, although I had some remarks yet of 
people who thought I was addressing them too formally!)

And even now I usually still have to say everything twice before they 
understand me so why am I even talking this way... I feel dirty all the 
time, and hate saying things because I hate what I am producing. I have left 
there in a hurry, 2 days earlier than planned, just because I felt totally 
bad and stuff... Hope I will be able to survive this for the coming 5 years 
:lol:

I'm even talking less dialect more Hollandic at home, just said "mag je" to 
my sister... and my mind is so fucked up right now that I don't manage to 
produce anything in our vowel system, you know the one that had been debated 
here a while ago. It's weird. I feel handicapped ;)

Sorry for all the smileys, ...'s etc but I'm in a shitty mood posting this. 
Don't even know if it even fits the Lowlands List.
Greetz

Diederik Masure

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Hey, Didi!

> Don't even know if it even fits the Lowlands List.

It does, and it offers non-Belgians and non-Netherlanders a glimpse of 
inter-variety "conflicts" in Dutch.

Sorry your first week in Amsterdam made you feel miserable.  I understand 
your reaction to it, having experienced similar things myself.Welcome to the 
world of migrants!  Being thrown into another linguistic universe can be 
very upsetting at first, especially when the conflicting varieties are 
closely related.  At first it is psychologically draining.   But it'll pass, 
very soon at your age.

While greater linguistic adaptability is the advantange of youth, the 
disadvantage is that you tend to loose your native language variety almost 
as quickly when you immerse yourself in the new one.  The challenge will be 
to become bilingual in Brabantish and Hollandic Dutch rather than to switch 
over to the new one.  Alternatively, you could decide not to speak Hollandic 
at all and instead cultivate a thicker skin and fly Brabant's flag proudly, 
which would allow you to disregard the raised eyebrows and giggles, 
especially when you need to speak in front of larger crowds.  There's a 
challenge for you, and at the end of the day you'll be glad you took it.  It 
is very useful for personal growth.  You'll end up the stronger for it.  So 
think of yourself as about to embark on a great adventure, a sort of 
conquest!

So good luck to you, buddy!  Feel free to share your experiences and 
reactions with your friends on Lowlands-L.

Here are cheers from one of your supporters.

Reinhard/Ron

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