LL-L "Language acquisition" 2005.09.11 (06) [E]

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival" 2005.09.11 (03) [E]


>From Gary Taylor:
"I think there are a number of more important reasons
why English speakers are so poor at learning other
languages, which are not due to the 'simplicity' of
English. One of which is the relative remoteness of
the speakers (island mentality - which applies to both
Brits and Americans). It's only in the last century
that travel opportunities have improved enough to
allow the average English speaker to encounter other
languages."

An additional one is: what do we learn? If your first language is Welsh, 
Finnish, German, Arabic, Hausa or Vietnamese, the answer to that is almost 
always "English".  In my travels I have acquired fairly competent (if now a 
bit rusty) Afrikaans and Tok Pisin, and have studied or dabbled in 
everything from Mandarin to Qechua. In the last two years I decided to pick 
on German to improve and try to achieve some fluency, partly because 
Germanic languages interest me, and it is Western Europe's biggest language. 
It didn't help me a lot in Ecuador, Finland or France though.

Paul

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival" 2005.09.11 (03) [E]

>you've
also got to remember that there are points in English
which are incredibly complex for foreign learners,<

Agreed - I obviously am unable in a few sentences to lay a complete idea
down.
I was just trying to show how the very simplest of linguistic procedures
which are so simple for English learners to produce correctly, are very
hard for English speakers.

I agree entirely - and use the idea all the time in my teaching - that when
it comes to verbs the reverse applies :  that it is easier to master an
invariable i.e. ich gehe  than understand exactly when to use variables
such as  I go, I am going, I have been going, I do go.

That having been said - a great deal of my argument also revolves around
the fact that English is such a creole of a language that it does not
present a 'pure' grammar / i.e.  every single linguistic function is not
necessarily represented by a single form   e.g.   bigger/biggest  but also
more beautiful and most beautiful,

If our children are not taught to analyse English,  and therefore
understand function, then faced with bigger / more beautiful  they expect
to translate both of these with two different forms. Similarly  I see him:
I give him the book - 'him' appears to be the same and will be treated as
such.. they will not anticipate an indirect version of the pronoun

English is a language that does not necessarily TEACH a child about
language. One has to study it - most usefully comparatively with other
languages - in order to understand about language per se.

I could go on.... but it's late. It's certainly not a simple argument - but
it resonates with teachers when they hear it!

Heather

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