LL-L "History" 2005.09.22 (04) [E]

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2005.09.21 (08) [E]


I get the impression that Germans exhibit the same sort of "Russian Doll" 
loyalties that the English have; a man is a Yorkshireman in the presence of 
somebody from Lancashire, but they are both Northerners if a Londoner turns 
up.  Then they are English when a Scot or a Welshman comes in - until an 
American arrives, then they are British.  I even know many English people 
who regard the Irish Republic as somehow "part of us" despite the fact that 
they are no more politically connected to the UK than say Belgium.  Yet in 
other circumstances the same people will be vocally pro-English and 
anti-Irish. Very strange.

I don't think the other UK nations have this hierarchy to the same extent, 
and I don't know of it in many other countries.  Germany appears to be one, 
and possibly the USA with State and regional loyalties falling under an 
American blanket.

Paul

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Nice observations, Paul.  I think you're onto something there.

Of course, this applies in an even more complex manner at the northern and 
southern ends of Germany, areas that became parts of Germany most 
reluctantly, especially "free state" of Bavaria and the two "free and 
Hanseatic cities"* (city states) Hamburg and Bremen whose special "free" 
status may be seen as a special concession.

* You mustn't forget the "and." It ain't "free Hanseatic."

Most complex are many traditionally Low-Saxon-speaking areas that used to be 
Frisian-speaking, especially Eastern Friesland, because there are those two 
extra layers, a vague awareness of Frisian ethnicity as the core.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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