LL-L "Names" 2005.09.23 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2005.09.23 (04) [E]


From: Karl-Heinz Lorenz <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2005.09.22 (11) [E]


  From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
  Subject: LL-L "Names" 2005.09.22 (06) [E]


  The -um is Frisian, but the pronounciation in Frisian is with a schwa
  [@],
  in by far the most dialects, and at least in all North-Frisian varieties.
  Also in West Frisian a  place like Winsum is pronounced [we:~s at m], Makkum
  as
  [mak at m] and so on.
  (never [um], as suggested to Germans by the spelling!). In North  Frisian
  spelling this schwa
  is written -e-. The -(g)em in Dutch names is [E] or [@], depending on
  stress.
  O.k., so "Husum" is the traditional Frisian spelling and "Hüsem" a HG
  spelling to make sure a correct Frisian pronunciation. But how does this
  match the efforts to avoid HG spelling in lowlands languages?

  Karl-Heinz
It may seem HG, but is in fact North Frisian. The North Frisian spelling 
system
(that all dialects except Halunder/Helogolandic use) does use some HG 
diacritic signs
but is quite phonological. Length is always denoted by doubling the vowel:
a vs aa, ä vs ää, å vs åå (yes, also a Scandinavian influence), i vs ii, u 
vs uu, o vs oo, ü vs üü, with e denoting schwa.
There is no consonant doubling. So hüsem is with a short vowel (like HG 
Rücke).
I suppose Husum is the traditional orthography, probably denoting an older 
pronounciation
with two [u] sounds (u was [u] in Old Frisian, as in most older Germanic).
Irony is: the old spellings are often the ones that the dominant language 
chose as its name
of the place as well, while the name itself evolves in the local language. 
The dominant language
name was, at the start, the "proper" name in the local langauge as well 
(maybe a few changes were
necessary to account for other phoneme systems), but it becomes less and 
less like
the local pronounciation of the name. The old spelling then serves as a 
"freezer" for the old name
in the dominant language. Eg. in "my" Frisia, Franeker is the Dutch name for 
a town (my mother
was born there), and the name is Frisian without a doubt, from Old Frisian 
frana + eker (judge + field, acre),
which in Dutch would have been (etymologically) Vroonakker.
But Old Frisian evolved, and now we say Frentsjer (with palatalisation 
etc.). So when we wanted
Frisian placenames on signs in the 50's, this was the name that appeared 
besides the Dutch (but really
also Frisian, but Old Frisian) name Franeker.... I suppose Husum is similar.
(we have a Huzum in our Frisia as well, pronounced [hyz at m]).

The North Frisian spelling is quite regular and pleasant to work with.
Having learnt Fering and some Mooring, Halunder was more of a problem to 
learn because
of its quirks in the spelling. But I suppose one gets used to anything in 
the end...


Regards


Henno Brandsma

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2005.09.23 (04) [E]

Hi, Ron and Criostóir,

Ron wrote:
> _Holm_ is a certain kind of island, I understand, something to do with an
> artificial island or some such thing, and not out in the ocean.
Yes- sometimes near by or in the middle of a stream or river; comparable
with '_warder_, _werder_.

And Criostóir:

> I thought "Bedlam" was a Middle English garbling of "Bethlehem"?
A small village here is named 'Belum', and its old name was 'Bedelem'.
I guess it deriving from OS/OHG 'butli'>>'buettel', meaning G: 'Bezirk,
umzäunte Stelle, Einfriedung', auch: 'Haus', in E: a 'settling, special
small place with any fence or fortification plant', also 'house'. Together
with the OF ending '-em' I'd translate it into 'a minor fortified
settlement'.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: Alfred Adler <adler.quatuor at tiscali.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2005.09.23 (04) [E]

From: Alfred Adler: adler.quatuor at tiscali.fr
subject: LL-L names  2005-IX-23

Hello LL-L'ers

About 'Bedlam'; When I studied in London I remember the very interesting
exhibition of the Royal Hospital for mentally disabled called Bedlam.
Sometimes my landlady reffered to it  as a place for lunatics where they
locked up one of her ancestors..
There is also a kind of farm in the US where they take care of old and
'noble' horses, a sort of old-age home where they can live until they
die.  I have come across more of those places elsewhere in the world (if
I remember well in Holland, Germany and even France) where horses
crippled, sick or otherwise unable to work .got a tranquil place to end
their days.
Greetings and
Avec les bonjours d'Alfred

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Jonny:

> A small village here is named 'Belum', and its old name was 'Bedelem'.

Wow!  Compare this with the Northeastern Anglo-Saxon Bodel Lum I mentioned!

OED:
<quote>

[ME. _Bedlem_ -- _Bethlem_, _Bethlehem_; applied to the Hospital of St. Mary 
of Bethlehem, in London, founded as a priory in 1247, with the special duty 
of receiving and entertaining the bishop of St. Mary of Bethlehem, and the 
canons, etc. of this, the mother church, as often as they might come to 
England. In 1330 it is mentioned as ‘an hospital,’ and in 1402 as a hospital 
for lunatics (Timbs); in 1346 it was received under the protection of the 
city of London, and on the Dissolution of the Monasteries, it was granted to 
the mayor and citizens, and in 1547 incorporated as a royal foundation for 
the reception of lunatics. Thence the modern sense, of which instances 
appear early in 16th c.]

1. The town of Bethlehem in Judea. Obs.

2. The Hospital of St. Mary of Bethlehem, used as an asylum for the 
reception and cure of mentally deranged persons; originally situated in 
Bishopsgate, in 1676 rebuilt near London Wall, and in 1815 transferred to 
Lambeth. Jack or Tom o' Bedlam: a madman.

3. By extension: A lunatic asylum, a madhouse.

4.
  a. abstr. Madness, lunacy. Also interjectionally.

  b. fig. A scene of mad confusion or uproar.

5. An inmate of Bethlehem Hospital, London, or of a lunatic asylum, or one 
fit for such a place, a madman; spec. one of the discharged, but often only 
half-cured, patients of the former, who were licensed to beg, wearing as a 
badge a tin plate on their left hand or arm; called also bedlam-beggars, 
bedlamers, bedlamites. Obs.

6. attrib., at length adj. Of, belonging to, or fit for Bedlam or a 
mad-house; mad, foolish.

7. Comb.: ns., as Bedlam beggar (cf. BEDLAM 5), -house, -man; adjs., as 
bedlam-mad, -ripe, -witted.

</quote>

I suspect that the Bedlam of Northeastern England has a different origin.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Bonjour, Alfred! C'est un plaisir de voir que vous participez à nos 
conversations.

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