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31 March 2006 * Volume 09
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From: Ben J. Bloomgren <Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.31 (03) [E]

Ron, Heather and all,

For some reason, there is this traditional Western (Greco-Roman-centered)
assumption that dedicated word morphology makes cases and tenses "real,"
that compounding (and certainly "omission") is a substitute, disregarding
that many grammatical morphemes are likely to have grown from compounding
(of which there's clearer evidence in Altaic than in Indo-European).
Besides, as you seem to imply, compound-based case and tense marking is just
as "real" as anything else.

If only people knew how silly it is to say things like "The X language has
fewer cases than the Y language"!  They all have the same cases, for Pete's
sake!  It's only that they mark them differently.  English "I give the ring
to my sister" and "I give my sister the ring" has dative and accusative just
as much as does German _Ich gebe meinER Schwester deN Ring_, and German _Ich
werde ihr den Ring geben_ ~ _Ich gebe ihr den Ring_ ('I will give her the
ring') is just as much future tense as is French _Je lui donnerAI l'anneau_,
Spanish _Le darÉ el anillo_ and Latin_DatABO ei annelum_.
Remember that he didn't know what to call it, and he said so on the message.
Please don't tare himm down for that. He was trying to do a comparison
between morphological markers and other means of marking case and tense.
Thanks,
Ben

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Hi, Ben!

I can't speak for our Heather, but I certainly didn't intend to tear down 
our Heiko.  As I said in the beginning of my first response,

> I'm glad you wrote "original" in quotes.  ;-)

I was not including Heiko (or anyone else on the List) in the population at 
which I directed my tirade, and I am pretty sure that Heiko understood that, 
because his use of quotes seemed to indicate that he himself doubts the 
validity of such characterizations as "original" and "real."  I had in mind 
foremost people that write textbooks and the like, containing phrases like 
"X has fewer cases and tenses than Y," "Finnish has many grammatical cases," 
etc.  While they may actually know that what they really mean is 
"morphologically marked cases/tenses," their simplification (or jargon) is 
misleading to the general public with little or no linguistic background 
knowledge.  This is why you sometimes hear people say things like "Latin has 
more grammar than English."

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron 

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