LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.04.06 (03) [D/E/Russian]

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06 April 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Marcel Bas <marcelbas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.04.05 (04) [E]


"Meester maken van..."
Ja, natuurlijk. Dergelijke woorden kun je inderdaad nog veel naderbij 
vinden. Is het werkwoord niet ook wederkerig?

Maar de aanleiding voor de contaminatie zat 'm bij mij toch vooral in het 
korte, overgankelijke werkwoord 'bemeester', waardoor ik kennelijk ooit een 
soort Engelse gelijkluidende constructie in elkaar flanste. Toen ik ergens 
een Engelse klok met het woord _master_ erin hoorde luiden, meende ik de 
klepel in een analogie met A. _bemeester_ te hebben gevonden. Bijzonder, hoe 
analogie werkt.

De volgende keer omzeil ik het probleem maar en schrijf ik gewoon _to get it 
under the knee_.

Groeten, Marcel.

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From: Marcel Bas <marcelbas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language acquisition" 2006.04.05 (02) [A/E/Russian]


Dorogoj Vlad,

Spasibo! No smotri chto ya nashol v slovare! Kakoe otkrovenie! Podozhdi... 
Ya napishu po-anglijski.

Dear Lowlanders, about  _to master a language_ I found in the newest 
Afrikaans - English / English - Afrikaans Pharos Dictionary (2005) the 
following:

- be.mees.ter _het ~_ = master; gain, get hold of.

And if you look on Google to see if _bemeester_ is being used in language 
context: 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE%2CRNWE%3A2005-02%2CRNWE%3Aen&q=taal+bemeester
(...) then you will see on the first results page that it is normal in 
Afrikaans (and that there are two webpages of mine that use this 
construction :))

So if _bemeester_ can be used in such a transitive way, and if it denotes 
_to master_  in English, then this explains my use of _to master_  in this 
way. I must have looked it up in a dictionary.

If _to master a language_ sounds odd, is it not proper English, and should 
therefore the denotation of the dictionary not be applied to all 
constructions? I get the impression that my way of using _to master_ as a 
translation of A. and D. _onder de knie krijgen_ is in fact correct. The 
Afrikaans - English section of the dictionary says:

knie, _iets onder die ~ kry_, (fig.) = master (or get on top of) s.t. (a 
subject etc.).

And if I Google it up it yields:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE%2CRNWE%3A2005-02%2CRNWE%3Aen&q=taal+onder+die+knie+kry

Once again, _to master_  could be used this way according to the dictionary. 
If I enter _mastered language_ (I use the perfect tense to avoid nouns) I 
get:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE%2CRNWE%3A2005-02%2CRNWE%3Aen&q=mastered+language

Even here we see that you could say it. It seems that I was not wrong.

The question still remains: But does it sound odd? I can imagine that it is 
a perfectly normal construction in South African English, possibly under the 
influence of _bemeester_.  A search in the Dictionary of South African 
English - On Historical Principles (1996) doesn't tell us anything about a 
verb.

Who can tell us more? It would be nice to at least try to master the English 
language ;)

Ron, I agree when you say that it is not possible to learn a language in 
order to reach the level of perfection. At least, if I speak for myself.

Best regards,

Marcel. 

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