LL-L "Etymology" 2006.04.13 (03) [E]

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13 April 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Marcel Bas <marcelbas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.04.13 (01) [D/E]


Good evening!

Kevin wrote about the history of_boy_:

>Interestingly, the English word "boy" possibly originally >meant a slave or
>male servant, supposedly coming from the same IE root as >"cow", "bovine",
>and "beef" (Latin "bos").
>
>>From the Online Etymological Dictionary
>(http://www.etymonline.com/index.php):
>
>"boie "servant, commoner, knave, boy," possibly from O.Fr. >embuie "one
>fettered," from V.L. *imboiare, from L. boia "leg iron, yoke, >leather
>collar," from Gk. boeiai dorai "ox hides." But it also >appears to be
>identical with E.Fris. boi "young gentleman," and perhaps >with Du. boef
>"knave," from M.Du. boeve, perhaps from M.L.G. buobe."

If Dutch _boef_ (rogue, thief, rascall) and High German _Bub_ (boy) and thus 
Carinthian _Pua_ are related to the Greek and Latin words starting with b-, 
then they must be Germanic loans from Greek or Latin. Both Greek and Latin 
_boeai_ and _bos_ derive from the IE root _*gwous-_, 'cow'. In Greek and 
Celtic _*gw-_ yields _b-_, (Old Irish _bó_) and _gu-_ in Latin, so people 
think L. _bos_ must have been taken from another Italic language which also 
had _-b_ for _*gw-_.

So if _Bub_ and _boef_ are indeed of the same root, then they múst be loans, 
because PIE _*gwous_ obviously yields _Kuh_, _Kuah_, _cow_ and _koe_ in Gmc 
languages.

And then there's also Eastern Friesic _boi_...

Jan de Vries (1971) says that he believes that Teutonic _boef_, _Bub_ could 
be onomatopoeic babbling words, like _to babble_  and _baby_.

And what about Latin _puppus_, which also means 'boy'?

Maybe _boy_ and _Bub_ shouldn't be linked.

Reinhard, you wrote:

>And "girl" (< _gyrela_) whose origin appears to be >somewhat obscure but
>seems to be linked with words for "virgin," only came to >denote 'female
>child' in the 16th century.  Before that it could mean "child" >in general,
>and it seems to be related to Low Saxon _goere_ ~ _goer_ >[gø:re] ~ [gø:3`]
'>child' (> German _Gör_ negative for 'brat', 'little monster'),

Don't you see links with OE _ceorl_, E _churl_  and D. _kerel_ / G _Kerl_?

Best regards,

Marcel.

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From: Heather Rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.04.12 (04) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET

Ben asks:  >Skerry? I've never seen that spelling. Is it archaic or
something?

A set of rocks off Anglesey are known as the Skerries. This name must be
the same, surely?

Heather

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From: Heather Rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.04.13 (01) [D/E]

>Ron writes: This goes  hand in hand with the old practice of not
mentioning children's real names
(which tend to have beautiful meanings) and instead using "deflective"
childhood names (_göbek adı_ "umbilical cord name," usually given by the
midwife), often with negative or just "weird" meanings. <

Romanies also fear that their name could be used against them in curses etc
so their real name is whispered to them by their mother soon after they are
born, and then they are given another 'unreal' name by which they are
known. This way their real name remains a secret and they cannot be touched
/ harmed.

Clever!

Heather 

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