LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.04.24 (08) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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   L O W L A N D S - L * 24 April 2006 * Volume 08
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.04.24 (06) [E/F]

No, Low Saxon of Groningen, Eastern Friesland etc. isn't even 10% as
Frisian as Stellingwerven LS. But "Stedsk" is, of course. I can tell
because my own SW Drenthe Low Saxon is in fact about the same variety as
Stellingwerven LS, and virtually all the things that are different in
Stellingwerven LS from "my" LS (and from Standard Dutch) are exactly the
same in Frisian. And that's absolutely not the case in Groningen etc.

I read in an article by some renowned Dutch linguists about dialect
relations that Town Frisian, Bilts, Terschelling "Dutch" and Stelling-
werven Low Saxon are particulary closely allied to each other, and after
that to Frisian, more than to dialects outside the province of Fryslân.

But Stellingwerven LS is NOT a Low Saxon on Frisian Substrate, as are
Groningen LS, Ostfriesisch etc., the influence of Frisian must have come
later after it became part of the province of Fryslân and many Frisian
speaking migrants came into the Stellingwerven.
And don't forget that the only larger city in the area, Heerenveen (Dutch)/
It Hearrenfean or It Fean (Fr) / Et Vene (St-LS), is only 5 kilometres or
so from the Stellingwerven.

Groetz
Ingmar

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Language varieties
>
>Ingmar,
>
>Don't you mean something like "Low Saxon on Frisian substrates"?  This
type
>includes Stedsk and pretty much all Low Saxon dialects of Groningen,
Emsland
>and Eastern Friesland.
>
>Missingsch is German on Low Saxon substrates.
>
>"Patentplatt" is not a language variety as such.  It is the creation of
>someone "faking" Low Saxon from a German angle.  It tends to be
>idiosyncratic or specific to small groups that construct "Patentplatt"
>together, not as a language system but impromptu made up chunks of "Low
>Saxon" on German substrates.

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
>Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2006.04.24 (02) [F]
>
>I think that Stellingwerven Low Saxon is so easy for Frisians to
>understand because it is almost some kind of "Patent-Plat" compared with
>e.g. Drenthe Low Saxon, with (West-)Frisian in the role that High German
>has in the North German Low Saxon Patentplatt. However, because many of
>these words and expressions shared by both Frisian and Stellingwerven Low
>Saxon are not known in Standard Dutch, the Stellingwervers don't mind;
>in case it would have an equally large amount of DUTCH loans, they would
>be more puristic and reject and replace them by 'real' LS equivalents.
>My two eurocents....
>Ingmar
>
>Piet B, answering Tomoki:
>>> Ferstean sy(ynwenners) it Stellingwerfsk?
>>Jawol, de measte Friezen fersteane it Stellingwarfs wol en at et net al
te
>>vlug praten wurdt, dan de mearste Hollanders ek wol. Utsein de typische
>>folslein eigen wurden fansels.

>To give you an example of "Patentenglisch," before the beginning of an
opera
>performance in Germany, an erstwhile president of Germany (Heinrich Lübke)
>is supposed to have said to Queen Elizabeth _Soon goes it loose_ (< _Bald
>geht es los_ 'It will begin shortly').  Rumor has it the guest looked
dazed
>for a second or so.

----------

From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.04.24 (06) [E/F]

Reinhard wrote:
>To give you an example of "Patentenglisch," before the beginning of an 
>opera
>performance in Germany, an erstwhile president of Germany (Heinrich Lübke)
>is supposed to have said to Queen Elizabeth _Soon goes it loose_ (< _Bald
>geht es los_ 'It will begin shortly').  Rumor has it the guest looked dazed
>for a second or so.

Nope, it was worse than that. He said "Equal goes it loose" ("gleich geht es 
los").

Creating terms and sentences in foreign languages this way used to be a 
popular pastime in the late 19th and 20th centuries ("Küchenlatein", 
"Besenkammerfranzösisch"). Examples: "Ignis quis vir" = Feuerwehrmann, or 
"Caesar ora classis Romana" (Caesar küsste die flotte Römerin").

But I wonder whether any of you linguistic experts can correctly translate 
the following sentence? "Si n'emmenes de fils d'avec, si laquelle, si d'amie 
chère".

Gabriele Kahn 

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