LL-L "Language use" 2006.04.29 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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   L O W L A N D S - L * 29 April 2006 * Volume 02
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2006.04.28 (04) [E]

Dear Elsie e.a.,

The word "Nederduits" does actually refer to Nederlands or Dutch.
Until a century or two ago, "Nederduits" was the normal term used for what
is now called "Nederlands". At the time the ancestors of the Afrikaanders
came to live at the Cape of Good Hope, this was ceertainly the case.
"Nederduits" Low German was opposed to "Hoogduits" High German, but in
this case it had nothing to do with its present meaning 'Low Saxon' or at
least the Non-High German West-Germanic language in Northern Germany.

Groeten
Ingmar

>>>From Elsie Zinsser:
>
>Paul, your information is incorrect.
>I was born in 1951 and have never seen any signs on government buildings
>in Dutch.
>Historical Afrikaner culture buildings which were built before Afrikaans
>became an official language in 1925 do have Dutch inscriptions, such as
>the Vroue Monument (1913) in Bloemfontein.
>
>NGK stands for Nederduits Gereformeerde Kerk (translated: "Low Germanic
>Reformed Church") and the name does not refer to Nederlands or Dutch. It
>comprises three sister churches (NG, Hervormde and Gereformeerde) but
>despite the many differences between them, they all use the new
>translation Afrikaans Bible.
>
>I understand that the more conservative seminaries got their professors
>from the Netherlands and despite these guys speaking Afrikaans after a
>short while they retained their Dutch accents.
>However, I do doubt very strongly that anyone's understanding of another
>language is based on it been spoken with an accent of it.
>
>There was in the 80's a 'Dutch speaking' Dutch Reformed Church in
Parktown,
>Johannesburg attended by expats from the Netherlands. The sermon was in
>English but the Bible reading was in Dutch.
>
>Regards,
>Elsie Zinsser

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2006.04.28 (04) [E]

Dear Elsie e.a.
"Nederduits" actually does refer to Dutch here, it is just an older name
for what is called Nederlands (Dutch) today. Even our language was still
called Nederduits by its own speakers, say, 200 years ago, so at the time
the ancestors of the Afrikaanders went to the Cape of Good Hope,
"Nederduits" meant nothing less or more than "Dutch".

Today in Dutch "Nederduits" means Low German, i.e. the Non-High German
language varieties of Northern Germany, just as German "Niederdeutsch".
Btw: Low German/Nederduits/Niederdeutsch is not exactly the same as
Low Saxon/Nedersaksisch/Niedersächsisch, because the former also includes
the Low Franconian and Frisian languages in Northern Germany, and the
latter is just one of the Low German languages, which is also spoken in
the N.E. Netherlands.

Groetz
Ingmar

>>>From Elsie Zinsser
>
>Paul, your information is incorrect.
>I was born in 1951 and have never seen any signs on government buildings
>in Dutch.
>Historical Afrikaner culture buildings which were built before Afrikaans
>became an official language in 1925 do have Dutch inscriptions, such as
>the Vroue Monument (1913) in Bloemfontein.
>
>NGK stands for Nederduits Gereformeerde Kerk (translated: "Low Germanic
>Reformed Church") and the name does not refer to Nederlands or Dutch. It
>comprises three sister churches (NG, Hervormde and Gereformeerde) but
>despite the many differences between them, they all use the new
>translation Afrikaans Bible.
>
>I understand that the more conservative seminaries got their professors
>from the Netherlands and despite these guys speaking Afrikaans after a
>short while they retained their Dutch accents.
>However, I do doubt very strongly that anyone's understanding of another
>language is based on it been spoken with an accent of it.
>
>There was in the 80's a 'Dutch speaking' Dutch Reformed Church in
Parktown,
>Johannesburg attended by expats from the Netherlands. The sermon was in
>English but the Bible reading was in Dutch.
>
>Regards,
>Elsie Zinsser 

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