LL-L 'History' 2006.08.19 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 19 August 2006 * Volume 01
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From: 'Utz H. Woltmann' [uwoltmann at gmx.de]
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.08.18 (02) [E]

Dear Ron,

thank you very much for the overview of the history of the Roma and
Sinti in Europe. There were many facts I did not know or have never
heard of before.

But there is a little mistake: You wrote:

>1930: Ten days before Hitler is elected Chancellor of The Third Reich on January
>30th, ...
>
It was not in 1930, it was in 1933: On January 30th, 1933 President
Hindenburg made Hitler Chancellor. Hitler was not elected as a
Chancellor, he was appointed by President Hindenburg.

Best regards
Utz H. Woltmann

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From: Tom Mc Rae [t.mcrae at uq.net.au]
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.08.18 (02) [E]

On 19/08/2006, at 2:22 AM, R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com] wrote:
>
> Subject: History
>
> Folks,
>
> Here's a bit more about the history of Roma ("Gypsy") people in the Lowlands,
> with some references to neighboring where relevant.

Great mailing Ron, many thanks.
I must add that if The Great William McGonagall's tortured verses are correct Her
Majesty Queen Victoria treated Gypsies very charitably.
In his 'poem' "The Attempted Assassination of the Queen" he tells us how....
'And she also gives the Gypsies money at Balmoral or so I have been told,
And mind you seldom silver but very often gold.'

But can we take seriously a poem which starts..

'God prosper long our Gracious Queen, long may she reign,
McLean he tried to shoot her but it was all in vain.
For God He turned the ball aside McLean aimed at her head,
Which made him very angry because he did not shoot her dead.' ?

Regards
Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia

Oh Wad Some Power the Giftie Gie Us
Tae See Oorsel's as Ithers See Us
Robert Burns

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: History

Thanks, Utz and Tom.

Of course you're totally correct, Utz.  My apologies.  "1930" was my typo, not an
error at the source.  

"The Patrin" (http://www.geocities.com/~Patrin/) is one of the best online
sources, if not *the* best, for and about Roma all over the world.  Yes, there is
the occasional broken link or language error, but the contents are very well
researched and presented, and it is a fantastic learning resource.  This should
not come as a surprise, given that Ian Hancock serves as a consultant.

There is also a list of important Roma organizations
(http://www.geocities.com/~Patrin/orgs.htm).  Note that the European Central
Office of the Roma National Congress (which mostly deals with Europe but is also
involved in wider international efforts) is located within our geographical area
of interest: in Hamburg (Simon von Utrecht Str. 85, D-20359 Hamburg, Germany,
http://www.romnews.com).  Germany is one of the few countries with both Sinti and
and other Roma populations,* and Hamburg has a long tradition of their presence.
 As far as I can remember back in my childhood, we had contacts with both,
because there was a sizeable settled Sinti community in our part of town, and our
places were within walking distance of local camp grounds set aside for traveling
Roma.

(* The others are Austria, Croatia, Czech Republic, France, Hungary, Italy,
Kazakhstan, Netherlands, Poland, Serbia and Montenegro, Slovenia and Switzerland.
 Although the Sinti are, technically speaking, Roma as well, in Germany they tend
to be referred to separately--"Sinti and Roma"--probably because they have a
history of separation and different lifestyles.)

Well, Tom, I think you're quite right in taking the reference to Queen Victoria's
attitude and actions with a grain of salt. Also, please bear in mind that the
word "gypsy" was (and is) used very liberally and loosely, including all types of
"travelers," also any sort of vagrant and other type of marginalized and homeless
person.  Furthermore, it is a word that has been surrounded by both loathing and
romanticism.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

***
   Kana e gadje mukhle penge vurdona te traden mobilia, 
   progreso akharde les. Kana e Rroma vi kerde kodo, 
   bari mila akharde les.
   
   When the gadje replaced their wagons with automobiles, 
   they called it progress. When the Roma did the same 
   thing, they called it a pity.
   
   - Dr. Ian F. Hancock

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