LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2006.08.29 (05) [D/E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 29 August 2006 * Volume 05
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From: 'Stellingwerfs Eigen' [info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl]
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica'

Karl-Heinz wrote:
> Hartelijk gelukwens aan je verjaardag!
This should be: Hartelijk geluk gewenst met je verjaardag!

> Het beste aan je verjaardag!
We never use this one, as far as I know.
"Het beste..." is mostly used with a *thing* like f.i. a new bicycle or a
new car.
"Het beste met je nieuwe fiets/auto" or something for "I wish You all the
best with..." or in general: "Het beste er mee."

> Do you also use "geboortedag" for "birthday"?
Strictly in words 1:1 yes, but in relation with a birthdayparty we use
_verjaardag_.

> What about: (Een) zalig verjaardag!
For me, _zalig_ is typical Roman Katholic and is used in the South of the
Netherlands at Christmas:
"Een zalig kerstfeest" or some days later "Een zalig nieuwjaar" (for: Happy
new year).
I never heard _zalig_ in relation with a birthday.

> "(Een) gelukkige verjaardag!" for Happy birthday!
I never heard _gelukkig_ in relation with a birthdaywish.
This should be: "Hartelijk geluk gewenst met je verjaardag!"
or "Gefeliciteerd met je verjaardag"

> Een geiles verjaardag festje!
Oei..! Nobody ever wishd me something like that!
_geil_ is _voluptuous_ so I can only dream of such a birthday-party;-)

> Does this work? Did Dutch "geil" undergo the same change of meaning as
German "geil"?
For me, the German _geil_ is more like _thick_ and _fat_ or _greasy_.
In Dutch we also use _geil_ for good clayground at the north coast near the
Waddenzee.
Geile grond geft geile eerappels: vette klei geeft dikke aardappelen.

Marcel wrote:
> in Dutch you could say 'Van harte gelukgewenst met...' whatever.
Hey Marcel, ik kies hier voor: geluk gewenst (2 woorden).
Ik wens iemand geluk en als ik dat doe dan ben ik hem aan het gelukwensen
(werkwoord); oké?

> I even believe that in Groningen people say 'Felisiteerd met...'.
En ok in Stellingwarf zeggen we: fielseteerd mit jow verjaordag (en daj' mar
een oold mannegien wodden meugen.).
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

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From: 'Marcel Bas' [roepstem at hotmail.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica'

Seawas, Karl!

You asked:

>Do you also use "geboortedag" for "birthday"?

No, we don't. In both Dutch and Afrikaans we use 'verjaardag'. We do have
'geboortedatum' which is 'date of birth'.

>What about: (Een) zalig verjaardag! or "(Een) gelukkige verjaardag!" for Happy
>birthday!

No, 'een zalige verjaardag' is unheard of. "Zalig" either means "beatific" or
"gorgeous". But usually ladies use this word in the context of 'gorgeous': "Het
eten was zááálig", for instance.

Your next question yields a very important piece of information for the German
speaking person! :D

>Or more modern:
>
>Een geiles verjaardag festje!
>
>Does this work? Did Dutch "geil" undergo the same change of meaning as German
"geil"?

On the contrary; our word 'geil' means 'horny'! There was a song in Germany in
the late eighties: "Everybody's geil", but to Dutch ears that song sounded quite
naughty. I believe in German it just means 'great', doesn't it? In Middle Dutch
the word already meant 'luscious', 'somptuous', 'cheerful'. In Althochdeutsch it
was 'geil'; meaning 'zestful', 'overcourageous', 'cheerful'. In Afrikaans it
means 'fertile' (as in fertile soil).

As you can see; learning a language can be tricky.

Best regards, Marcel.

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Idiomatica

Piet and Marcel,

_German _geil_ originally also meant '(very) fertile', 'ready for the planting',
or "fat" (of soil).  It can still mean this, but people now tend to avoid it in
this context because of the secondary meaning 'horny', a meaning it had already
acquired in Old German times.  In the sense of 'great', 'super', 'cool', etc., it
began in I'm-young-and-thus-need-to-rebel jargon ("In your face, old codgers!"),
no doubt having initially been meant to shock.  Even after having heard it for
two or three decades, many German speakers, certainly older ones, are still
uncomfortable with it, probably as uncomfortable as Dutch speakers would be.  I
don't recommend that learners use it unless they are absolutely sure it's safe,
because it is still considered pretty unseemly by many people, perhaps a bit like
English expressions such as "This sucks" or "He gets off doing that."  (Even
people with a moderately keen etymological sense can at least imagine the origins
of such phrases.)

I suppose Dutch _zalig_ functions much like German _seelig_ (["se:lIC]) and Low
Saxon _seylig_ (_seelig_ ["zE.IlIC]), literally "soul-ly."  In Northern Low Saxon
it can often be expressed by means of _welig_ (["ve:lIC] ~ ["vE:lIC] 'blissful'),
from _weel_ (_Weel_ ~ _Wääl_ [ve:l] ~ [vE:l] 'bliss'), often corresponding to
German _wonnig_ < _Wonne_.

Kumpelmenten!
Reinhard/Ron

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