LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.31 (02) [A/D/E/V]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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L O W L A N D S - L * 31 August 2006 * Volume 02
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From: 'Hugo Zweep' [Zweep at bigpond.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.30 (07) [D/E]

Just another thought on knickerbockers. Came to me suddenly.

When we arrived in Australia in 1949 my best ensemble of clothes was a
finely, machine, knitted shirt coupled with a pair of plus fours and long
socks. I liked it and my mother liked it, so on my very first day at school
I was dressed up in it and released into a class of 10 and 11 year olds.

Australia in that time was much more basic than it is now and I have a class
photo, taken shortly afterwards, with lots of snotty nosed boys dressed in
coarse cloth, short pants and cotton shirts barely tucked into those short
pants. Most of the boys have shoes and socks but about a half dozen are in
bare feet.

Even when you don't understand a word of English you do understand sneers
and sniggers and above all the need the defend your own sense of dignity. So
plus fours were the reason for my first school fight in a new country. My
mother eventually accepted that plus fours were not what I should be wearing
to school. In fact they were discarded soon after and I was given my first
pair of long trousers to be worn only as Sunday best on social occasions.

Interesting then that the Sorter Oxford defines plus fours as "long wide
knickerbockers, or a suit having such; so named because, to produce the
overhang, the length was originally increased by four inches".

Hugo Zweep

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From: 'Marcel Bas' [roepstem at hotmail.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.30 (06) [A/D/E]

Hi, Mark!

You wrote:

"In my language a 'glimlag' is a smile; a lovely word. I park it with
'vatsoen' our word for hug.'Glim' means to smoulder, phosphouresce, or glow,
& as you no doubt expect, lag is laugh. 'Vat' is hold, & 'soen' means kiss."

Actually, in an etymological sense, _glim-_ does not have similarities with
_glim_ 'to glow'. It is folk etymology: in nineteenth century Dutch people wrote
_grimlach_, 'smile'. But connotations with _grijns_ 'smurk' and _grimmig_ 'grim'
lead to _glimlach_.

In 1867 Piet Paaltjen's poems _Snikken en Grimlachjes_ had been released, and
there _grimlach_ still denotes _smile_. Today, the word _grimlach_ is still in
use, referring to grim smiles.

Mark, I sometimes read the Afrikaans word _viets_. Dit beteken glo _deftig_. Maar
watse woord is dat? Ek kan dit nie in die HAT vind nie.

Best regards,

Marcel.

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From: 'Roland Desnerck' [desnerck.roland at skynet.be]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.30 (07) [D/E]

Beste Lowlanders, beste Theo,
In verband met "brad":
brad1* - geweldig, onstuimig, wild; de bradde zai: de wilde zee;
2* - lastig, moeilijk, wild (van mensen); e bradde joeng: een wilde jongen;
3* - onbehouwen, ruw (van een dronkaard);
4* - bronstig, driftig; ook: braddig.
Het tegengestelde van "e bradde zai" is: 't en is gin lovertsje wiend, je
kad e luus kraakn up zai, de zai is stakelamblad, de zai is stokkebléd.
Toetnoasteki, Roland Desnerck

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Thanks to our Roland for posting the meanings of Dutch/Flemish _brad_ ([brat])
above. The basic semantics appear to be 'coarse', 'rude', 'wild'.  Note also the
meaning 'a wild boy' for Western Flemish _e bradde jong_.

This brings to mind English "brat," contemptuous for 'child', implying
'ill-behaved child'.  _The Oxford English Dictionary_ explains that the origin of
"brat" in this sense is uncertain, though it has been proposed that it was
derived from "brat" in the sense of 'rough cloth', 'rag'.  Dunbar wrote in 1505,
"... beggar with thy brattis," and Tottel wrote in 1557, "Yong brats, a trouble
..."  

"Brat" in the sense of 'rag' is probably derived from Celtic (cf. Irish _brat(t)_
'plaid', 'cloak' > Old Northumbrian _brat(t)_ 'over-garment of coarse cloth'). 
It often occurs in the sense of 'beggars' rags.'  So it is not inconceivable that
'beggar's rag' came to be extended contemptuously to 'beggar's rags-clad,
ill-behaved child' and eventually to 'badly behaved child' generally (thus
perhaps "Don't be such a brat!" = "Don't behave like those poor folks' horrible
kids!").

If this semantic extension is factual, then I would propose that Western Flemish
_brad_ is derived from English or Scots "brat."  Historically this would make
sense in that there were strong connections between Northern England, Lowlands
Scotland and Flanders, particularly Flemish trading and immigration to those
areas of Britain.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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