LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.31 (04) [A/D/E/V]

Thu Aug 31 21:54:40 UTC 2006

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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L O W L A N D S - L * 31 August 2006 * Volume 04
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From: 'jonny' [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.31 (02) [A/D/E/V]

Dear Ron,

you wrote:
> This brings to mind English "brat," contemptuous for 'child', implying
> 'ill-behaved child'. _The Oxford English Dictionary_ explains that the
> origin of
> "brat" in this sense is uncertain,
Could this _brat_ perhaps be the origin of or related to our Low-Saxon _Briit'_,
in its first meaning 'a naughty boy'?
In older discussions we assumed it to derive from 'british', 'Britain', but
hadn't been sure about.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: 'Elsie Zinsser' [ezinsser at icon.co.za]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.31 (02) [A/D/E/V]

Haai julle,

Marcel, 'viets' in Afrikaans beteken 'fit' 'trim' of 'flink', soos in:
-Hulle kla dat 10 km te ver is maar almal was nogal viets.
-Sy is baie viets vir haar 70 jare.
-Die ou omie het ewe viets oor die muur gespring en die lam uit die water
gehaal.

Groete,
Elsie Zinsser
Mark, I sometimes read the Afrikaans word _viets_. Dit beteken glo _deftig_.
Maar
watse woord is dat? Ek kan dit nie in die HAT vind nie.

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From: Theo Homan [theohoman at yahoo.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.31 (02) [A/D/E/V]

> From: 'Roland Desnerck' [desnerck.roland at skynet.be]
> Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.30 (07) [D/E]
>
> Beste Lowlanders, beste Theo,
> In verband met "brad":
> brad1* - geweldig, onstuimig, wild; de bradde zai:
> de wilde zee;
> 2* - lastig, moeilijk, wild (van mensen); e bradde
> joeng: een wilde jongen;
> 3* - onbehouwen, ruw (van een dronkaard);
> 4* - bronstig, driftig; ook: braddig.
> Het tegengestelde van "e bradde zai" is: 't en is
> gin lovertsje wiend, je
> kad e luus kraakn up zai, de zai is stakelamblad, de
> zai is stokkeblÃ©d.
> Toetnoasteki, Roland Desnerck

Hi Roland,

Tja, gezien de andere betekenissen, houd ik het er
maar op dat het oostendse 'brad' een algemeen germaans
woord is, ondermeer ook vanwege het ijslandse
'brÃ¡Ã°[r]'; dit betekent gangbaar 'plotseling', maar
hetkomt ook voor als 'brÃ¡Ã°r hestr' = een vurig paard
en als ''brÃ¡Ã° er barnÃ¦skan' = onstuimig is de
jeugd.

Eeeeh, bij jouw grote plechtigheid in september kunje
dus tegen de burgemeester en de andere notabelen
zeggen dat er een hollander is die denkt dat het
Oostends een germaanse taal is.:)

Succes.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: 'Mark Dreyer' [mrdreyer at lantic.net]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.31 (02) [A/D/E/V]

Haai Luc:

Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'

Does "vatsoen" really mean hug? Thing is, in Dutch we have the word
"fatsoen", which means decency (< faÃ§on (F) ~ fashion (E), mode), but I
agree this is a far cry from "hug", eg.

"Hou je fatsoen" = "Mind your manners"
"Fatsoensridder" = "Stickler for proprieties"...

That too, in Afrikaans, when you spell it with an 'f'.

You can also say 'omhels' for hug, but as with 'embrace' in English it's
simply not as nice.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology 

Jonny (above):

> Could this _brat_ perhaps be the origin of or related to our Low-Saxon 
> _Briit'_, in its first meaning 'a naughty boy'?

Hmmm ... That seems like too much of a stretch to me, from /a/ to /ii/.  I still
believe it comes from the word for "Briton": _Briete_ > _Briet_ (pl. _Brieten_).
 (It's still _Briete_ in Hamburg Missingsch.)  

Although these days it's often used to denote what in German is _Schlingel_
('rascal') in reference to a naughty boy, I believe that the origin was a bit
more serious, denoting what in German is often referred to as _Asozialer_. This
is an anti-social fellow, someone who tends to be up to no good and gets into
trouble with the police.  In this sense it occurs in the Hamburg Missingsch song
_Die Barmbeker Brieten_, officially _Brieten aus dem Barmbeker Land_.  (You can
hear a snippet of it here:
http://www.digitalindie.net/downloads/files/307_09_-_track__9.mp3)  Barmbeck is
now a northeastern part of Hamburg, has a working class history and was a
traditional Communist stronghold, which may have contributed to the reputation.)

Elsie (ook hierbo):

> Marcel, 'viets' in Afrikaans beteken 'fit' 'trim' of 'flink' ...

Mag hierdie woord van Engels "fit" afkomstig wees?  Of is dit miskien van Fraans
"vite" (vinnig) gekom?

Groete,
Reinhard/Ron

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