LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.02.02 (02) [D/E]

Thu Feb 2 16:33:29 UTC 2006

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02 February 2006 * Volume 02
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From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.02.01 (08) [E/LS/German]

To: Heiko Evermann
Subject: LL-L Gleichung
From: Andrys Onsman

Hallo Eiko

Als je mij vraagt is het gewoon "equatie."
Laat ons dat als een equatie opschrijven: x=5+y

Andrys

> * does Dutch really say that a mathematical equation is a comparison?
> * and if so: would Vergliek be a suitable LS word? Like in
> ** "Laat uns dat as 'n (mathemaatschen) Vergliek opschrieven: x=5+y"
> ** "Wi wullt nun dissen Vergliek lösen/oplösen"
> ** "In de Mathematik is de Lien de Koppel vun Punkten, de op den Vergliek
> y=a*x+b höört"/"..de den Vergliek y=a*x+b erfüllt(Platt?)"
>
> Compare this to
> ** "Laat uns dat as 'n (mathemaatsche) Glieken opschrieven: x=5+y"
> ** "Wi wullt nun disse Glieken lösen/oplösen"
> ** "In de Mathematik is de Lien de Koppel vun Punkten, de op de Glieken
> y=a*x+b höört"/"..de Glieken y=a*x+b erfüllt(Platt?)"

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.02.01 (08) [E/LS/German]

Heiko schreev:
>
> Dutch: vergelijking
>
> I was a bit puzzeled over dutch. From
> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergelijking I then learned that this word
> does have a double meaning. One seems to be "comparison" and the other
> (mathematical) meaning is "equation".
>
> This is a bit strange, as an equation regards both sides as equal,
> whereas a comparison of two sides might come to the conclusion that both 
> sides are
> different.
>
Actually an equation means that both sides are _comparable_, so calling
it a comparison is not that strange.

> So my questions:
> * does Dutch really say that a mathematical equation is a comparison?
 >
I think it means to say that both sides are comparable (= equal), rather
than you're comparing something.

> * and if so: would Vergliek be a suitable LS word?
 >
I think so. I'd accept it.

> Compare this to
> ** "Laat uns dat as 'n (mathemaatsche) Glieken opschrieven: x=5+y"
 >
The word "glieken" sounds strange, foreign in my ears. But then I'm "van
aover den paol"

Henry

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.02.01 (08) [E/LS/German]

> From: Henry Pijffers <henry at saxnot.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.02.01 (01) [E]
>
> Rikus Kiers schreev:
> >
> > Loiwagen Is wellicht in het hollands een luiwagen.
> >
> Jao, daet het ik ok al wal dacht, mear 's mangs weet
> ik nich mear of eyn
> woord nu echt Hollandsch is of nich. Et is gewoon
> nich myn eerste
> moderspraoke, al myn Hollandsch is kluyrt duyr myn
> Saksysch.
>
> Henry

Ola,

Nou, vooruit, maar ik ben geen schoonheidsfanaticus.

'luiwagen' is [ook] hollands, maar ik heb het woord al
heel lang niet meer gehoord.

Ik denk dat het woord verdwenen is toen de mensen
steeds meer vaste vloerbedekking gingen krijgen.
Mijn moeder had alleen een zwabber [en ik was daar ook
heel vaardig mee], en op het zeil werkt dat droog; en
een luiwagen werkt met een emmer water--  en dat is
niet zo'n succes op vaste vloerbedekking.
Voor op het parket gebruiken mijn huidige buren een
luiwagen, maar ik denk dat ze dat woord niet kennen.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

In the North Saxon dialects of Germany, _lyken_ (<lieken>) is another option 
for _glyken_ (<glieken>) 'to equal', _lyk_ (<liek>) for _glyk_ (<gliek) 
'equal', _lyks_ (<lieks>) for _glyks_ (<glieks>) 'equally', 'at once', _tou 
lyk_ (<toliek>) for _tou glyk_ (<togliek>) 'at the same time', _belyken_ 
(<belieken>) for _beglyken_ (<beglieken>) 'to settle (a score or an 
account)', _verlyken_ (<verlieken>) for _verglyken_ (<verglieken>) 'to 
compare', etc.  The difference appears to be dialectical and sociolectical, 
and German influence may well play a role as well (which would favor _lyk_ 
because of German _gleich_ < _gi-lîhi_).

Note that several LS forms have no equivalents with _g-_; e.g., _lykers_ 
(<liekers>) 'anyway', 'nevertheless', and _lyksterwelt_ 'equally', 'as it 
were'.  Also, even many speakers otherwise using the forms with _g-_ tend to 
use _lyk ..._ (<liek...>) in forms like _lyk veel_ (<liekveel>) 'as much', 
'in equal amounts', and _lyk jung_ (<liekjung>) 'of the same (young) age'. 
Old Saxon had mostly forms based on _gi-lîk-_ though.

Note that German for 'parable' is _Gleichung_. (Old Saxon has _bilithi_, 
which would now be something like *_belid_ had it survived.)

Theo, do you have any idea about the etymology of _luiwagen_ and its 
companions?  It seems like such a weird group!  May it have anything to do 
with German _läutern_ 'to clear/clean up', _erläutern_ 'to clarify', 'to 
explain', and _lauter_ 'pure'?  If so, it should be related to _hlut(t)-_ in 
Old Saxon, which would be *_luy(d)-_ (*<lüüd'-> [ly:(d)]) in Modern LS.  In 
that case I suspect that _loywaag'_, _loywagen_, etc., go back to a Dutch 
loan.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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