LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.02.10 (03) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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10 February 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.02.07 (07) [E/Middelsprake]


  From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder
  Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.02.07 (02) [E]

  PS: For the ones that didn't know, the text above was written in
  Middelsprake
I wondered why I was suddenly finding it easier than usual to read one of 
the non-English postings!!  That really seems to be an effective "pan 
Germanic" language.

Paul

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From: Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L Heven vs. Himmel

Hi Ron,

I have a question about the Low Saxon words for Himmel. There are two:
* Heven/Heben
* Himmel

One member of the LS wikipedia said:
> "Moin, teohäope! Dor es en Ünnerschuid tüschken "Hiömmel" (Himmel) un
> "Hiawen" (Heben): Dat, wat en seihen kann, hett "Hiawen", dat annere hett
> "Hiömmel".
So this would mean
* LS Heven = EN sky
* LS Himmel = EN heaven (in the religious sense)

Is this a general distinction in LS or are Heven and Himmel equivalent (at
least for some part of the speakers)?

Besides: I think that sometimes the distinction is not done even in English,
like in the song: "Spirit in the sky":
>When I die and they lay me to rest
>Gonna go to the place that's the best
>When I lay me down to die
>Goin' up to the spirit in the sky
>Goin' up to the spirit in the sky

Kind regards,

Heiko Evermann

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Hi, Heiko!

Generally speaking, I use _heven_ for 'sky' and _himmel_ for 'heaven'. 
However, I cross the dividing line on occasion, such as saying _hevensgaav'_ 
("heaven's gift") for 'devine gift', 'providence' or '(god-given) talent', 
rather than *_himmelsgaav'_.

You are right regarding English "heaven" and "sky."  This includes also 
"heaven" or "heavens" in the sense of "sky," especially in lyrical language 
(e.g., "ominous clouds gathering in the heavens").

I have been told that Low Saxon borrowed _himmel_.  While this may be 
possible, it would have to go back very far indeed, probably to the early 
times of Frankish Christianization of the Saxons, because both words are 
used in Old Saxon, and they seem to be either interchangeable or are 
dialectically distributed; e.g., ...

hevankuning (heavenly/celestial king)
himilkuning (heavenly/celestial king)

hevanrîki (heavenly/celestial realm)
himilrîki (heavenly/celestial realm)

hevantungal (star)
himiltungal (star)

hevanuuang (heavenly/celestial pasture)

hevanuuard (heavenly/celestial guard)

himilfader (heavenly father)

himilik (ceiling)

himilîk(o) (heaven-like, heavely)

himilisk (heavenly)

himilkraft (heaven's might, celestial host)

himilporta (heaven's gate)

himiluuolkan (cloud in the sky)

I have been told that some modern Low Saxon dialects have only _himmel_.

Old Low Franconian appears to have only _himel_.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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