LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.15 (03) [E/German]
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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15 February 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.15 (01) [E]
> From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.02.13 (01) [D/E]
>
>> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Lexicon
>>
>> Hi, Jacqueline, Roger and alleman (un -vrou)!
>>
>> The difference you Dutch speakers appear to perceive between
>> _hemel_ and _lucht_ interests me.
> Do not forget that the Western Flemish people also use "lucht " for
> the Dutch word "licht".
Yes, this is due to the form "lucht" deriving from another stem of
"licht", namely "*leucht" in Old Germanic.
This explains the difference between the noun "licht" and the verb
"verluchten", and the German Licht vs leuchten.
Also in Frisian dialects remnants remain: ljocht (with O) from
"licht-" (with typical Old Frisian breaking) and "ljuchtsje" from
"*leuchtian" eg.
In some dialects, eg West Flemish, but it also occurs in some Saxon
dialects, I believe, the vowel from the verb is transferred (by
analogy?) to the noun.
Of course the "lucht" (air) comes from "luft", and so originally
there was no confusion....
Strange fact: in West Frisian the "Erbwort" "loft" is used for "sky",
while the Dutch loan "lucht" is used for "air" (that you breathe).
The wurd "himel" isn't used very much, except in religious senses and
poetically. The related (?) "himmel" (adjective) is something like
"clean", eg.
see the already mentioned "himmelje" = to clean, to tidy up.
> We use "(al)licht" in the meaning of "almost".
licht for easy, not heavy, is used in West Frisian as well. This word
is never subject to breaking, as it has different origins from
"ljocht", which
must have had a -u- or -w- in the following syllable.
Henno
> So we say:V: "Doet de lucht uut" (E: Turn out the light).
> V: " 't Goa lichte donker zijn (E: It will soon be
> dark).
> groetjes,
> Luc Vanbrabant
> Oekene
----------
From: Henry Pijffers <henry at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.02.13 (07) [E/German]
Ron schreev:
>
> Das Mittelniederländische hat auch _polle_ und _pol_ für 'Kopf',
> 'Schopf' u.s.w.
>
Sometimes we still say "polletje piekhaar", when one's hair is looking
like one just put ones fingers in an electrical outlet. I never
understood that, but now I think it's related to the Middle Dutch "pol(le)".
Henry
----------
From: Henry Pijffers <henry at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.15 (01) [E]
Ron schreev:
>
> I assume this _licht_ is that of "light" as opposed to "heavy." In many
> West Germanic language varieties it functions in the meaning 'easy' or
> 'easily'. In Low Saxon that's how you can use it; e.g.,
>
> Dyn kist is nich LICHT. Ik kan er LICHT de trap rup dregen.
> Man ik bruuk eyrst maal 'n beten LICHT.
>
I would say:
Une kiste is nich lich'. Ik kan uem makkelik de trappe op dreagen. Mear
ik muet eerst maal 'n betten lech' hebben.
So light, as in 'not dark', is 'lech(t)', not 'lich(t)'.
We don't know 'licht' as meaning of 'easy'.
Henry
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology
Thanks, Henno.
I think what you said about _licht_ and _lucht_ bears out at least in some
Low Saxon dialects (though some people may disagree based on their dialect
experiences).
For me it's like this:
(1) _licht_ (never *_lücht_) 'light' (not heavy), 'easy' [Germ. cogn.
_leicht_]
(2) _licht_ ~ _lücht_ (<Licht> ~ <Lücht>, dialectical variation) 'light'
(not dark) [Germ. cogn. _Licht_]
(3) _lücht_ (<Lücht>, never *_licht_) 'light fixture', 'lamp', 'lantern',
'luminaire', 'luminary' [Germ. cogn. _Leuchte_]
There is also the noun _latücht_ for '(hand-held) lamp', 'lantern'. I
assume its a hybrid made up of _lateyrn_ (<Lateern>) 'lantern' and _lücht_
(3 above).
Ha, die Henry!
> Sometimes we still say "polletje piekhaar", when one's hair is looking
> like one just put ones fingers in an electrical outlet. I never
> understood that, but now I think it's related to the Middle Dutch
> "pol(le)".
Yep. Who said etymology can't be enlightening and fun?
I have a feeling that our Jonny is basically right in saying that in Low
Saxon _pul_, _pol_, etc., denote a bunch of thin twigs that grow out of a
usually swollen top of a tree whose twigs are constantly cut off (typically
willow twigs for basket-making). However, I suspect that this was
*originally* the case and may well still be the case in certain dialects,
while in other dialects there has been semantic spread to cover 'treetop',
'crown of a tree', etc., generally After all, semantic shifts and spreads
account for many dialectical differences in all languages.
Lowlanders, those of you who have never been to the "mother" Lowlands may
not know what we are talking about here, "pollard," etc. Please take a look
at pictures of pollard willows:
http://kollmar-elbe.de/BilderHTM/BilderNov/De_Wettern_is_vull_3-98-28.jpg
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Kopfweide.jpg
http://www.beekhoeve.nl/images/Fotopagina/Winter%20knotwilg.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/nl/thumb/c/c6/Knotwilg.JPG/180px-Knotwilg.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/taco25ps/fotos/p_foto_17.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/fredvanwezer/hpbimg/knotwilg.JPG
http://profit.inabox.nl/images_content/main/44knotwilg.jpg
Dutch: knotwilg
Low Saxon: pulwichel ~ polwichel (<Pullwichel> ~ <Pollwichel>)
English: pollard willow
German: Kopfweide
Henry again:
> We don't know 'licht' as meaning of 'easy'.
It might be a case of loaning from German in our dialects (or Dutch loaning
in your case?). A similar word is _lichtvardig_ (<lichtfardig> ~
<lichtfarrig>), but only as an adverb. Other words for 'easy' are _oed'_
(<ööd>) and _leyflig_, _redig_ (more 'not complicated', related to English
"readily").
Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron
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