LL-L "History" 2006.02.15 (07) [E/German]

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15 February 2006 * Volume 07
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From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2006.02.15 (05) [E]

From: Andrys Onsman
Re: History

Hi Ron, Paul and Gabriele

Paul, I tend to agree with what you said but I'm not sure Frisians at
that time elected anyone - more an "oligarchical arrangement" of family
heads making more or less communal decisions when it was necessary.
Social stratification probably happened much later.

> When did hereditary titles begin among Germanic-speakers in Britain?

Ron, part of the problem of finding an answer to that question may be
the possibility that Beowulf muddies the waters. Unlike those who refer
to it as a reliable historical account, the poem seems to me to be a
fairly blatant attempt to curry favour with the reigning "monarch"
Aethelwulf (the father of Alfred) who had decided that he was a
descedant of Scylf Scefing, the chap who came out of nowhere to unite
the warring tribes of southern Denmark into a single, unified nation.
Essentially Beowulf is the same (fictional) story transplanted to
Britain. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a great deal of
verifiable evidence that there actually was a /theod-cyninga/, a
national king who ruled over the tribes, at all during that time.
Perhaps it is because the flattery was so far over the top that Beowulf
never morphed into ontological  ethnogenesis in the way the Mahabarata
or the Illiad or the Dreaming did. Good story, though, and worthy of
discussion on this list, methinks.

And a quick word to Gabriele about transplanting of conquering religions
onto the existing one. I'm disappointed that the festival of "our"
goddess, or Earthmother, Eostre was misappropriated by the patriarchal
misogynists of the organised Christian Church, and turned into Easter.
Surely both are worthy of their own and separate celebrations? I wonder
why the assumed truth of any proselytory paradigm always has to be such
a brutal, intolerant construct.

And now, back to work
Cheers
Andrys

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From: Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2006.02.15 (05) [E]

Hi Ron,

your mail about history reminded me of a Wikipedia article about the German
thing-meetings:
from http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing

"Tacitus beschreibt in "Germania" (De origine et situ Germanorum) den Ablauf
des Thing: Demnach wurden am ersten Tag der Zusammenkunft unter starkem
Alkoholkonsum wichtige politische aber auch militärische Dinge besprochen.
Beschlüsse wurden dagegen erst am nächstem Tag in nüchternem Zustand 
gefasst.
Dieses Vorgehen hatte Tacitus zufolge den Vorteil, dass am ersten Tag die
Teilnehmer leichter mit "freier Zunge" redeten."

I think that this is an interesting regulation of drinking alkohol. It is 
one
of the earliest part-time prohibition of alcohol consumption that I know of.

Kind regards,

Heiko Evermann

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Thanks for explaining that, Andrys.

Thanks also to you, Heiko.  Interesting.  Aber das ist wohl doch eher so ein 
Brauch von den versoffenen Deutschen.  Nein!  Bei den lieben, stets 
nüchternen Sachsen kann eine solche Unsitte nicht geherrscht haben.  ;-)

Well, Andrys, the Danish and Scanian connection is certainly not a secret in 
the _Beowulf_:

   Hwæt we Gâr-Dena      in geâr-dagum
   þeód-cyninga      þrym gefrunon
   hû þâ æðelingas      ellen fremedon
   Oft Scyld Scêfing      sceaðena þreátum
   ...

   Hail! Praise be to the might of nation kings,
   Of spear-armed Danes in days of yore!
   We heard of the nobles’ honor won often
   By Scyld the Scêfing in foreign lands,
   ...

(Sorry. My free translation ...)

There's a nice site explaining the background of the _Beowulf_ story:
http://www.jagular.com/beowulf/

And Britannia has a nice index of British monarchs:
http://www.britannia.com/history/h6f.html

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron 

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