LL-L "Phonology" 2006.01.08 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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   L O W L A N D S - L * 08 January 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.01.08 (01) [E]

> From: Ben J. Bloomgren <godsquad at cox.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.01.07 (04) [D/E]
> 
> Roger,
> 
> No, right the opposite. The f and v are two distinct
> phonemes for
> Francophone people. They don't mistake one for the
> other. The phonemic
> differnce is between strong voicing and no voicing.
> 
> So are you saying then that the Dutch speaker will,
> dialectal variants 
> notwithstanding here, unify the /f/ and the /v/? Am
> I still missing 
> something? How does this work in standard German?
> 
> Ben 
-----------------
Hi Ben,

Sorry for my slow reaction reg. your question.
And until now I didn't give any reaction in the 'dutch
v-f and z-s discussion' as we have great experts in
our group.

But for a lot of Dutchmen it is going like this:
[and remember that I grew up in De Pijp in A'dam, and
De Pijp was [also] a real 'rascal and scoundrel
district' in A'dam: --"The street is our home."--  So
they never spoke 'government-dutch'.]

When I -and many with me- pronounce s where you
would/should expect a z, this s is not as sharp as the
s where there IS a s.
Is this clear enough? Well, please, read it twice, no
harm done.

And the same goes for f where you expect v.

I think that foreigners and {foreign} linguists with
ears hear these two s's [vid. f's] as one and the same
s [vid. f].

Maybe this is a light in our dark linguistics.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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