LL-L "Orthography" 2006.01.13 (04) [E]

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13 January 2006 * Volume 04
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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2006.01.13 (01) [E]

Ron quoted:
> "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and
> strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." [H. P. Lovecraft]
>
> "I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened
> of the old ones."    [John Cage]"
>
> "Man's fear of ideas is probably the greatest dike holding back human
> knowledge and happiness." [Max Leopold Ernst]
>
> "The vast majority of human beings dislike and even dread all notions with
> which they are not familiar. Hence it comes about that at their first
> appearance innovators have always been derided as fools and madmen."
[Aldous
> Huxley]
>
> "We fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them." [Titus Livius]
>
> "The soft-minded man always fears change. He feels security in the status
> quo, and he has an almost morbid fear of the new. For him, the greatest
pain
> is the pain of a new idea." [Martin Luther King]
>
> "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
[Mark
> Twain]

Sorry, nice Google job, and not-all-that-subtle propaganda, but no point in
case. None of these mention spelling. Also, not every change is for the
better (least of all the German spelling "reform"), and the wish to preserve
something beloved and beautiful is hardly the same as "the fear of the
unknown". Do you really think people want to preserve nature, art, music
and, yes, languages out of fear? What is going to be next - get rid of all
those pesky little extra notes and trills that Mozart inserted all over the
place?

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2006.01.13 (01) [E]


The fact that conservatism can be due to a fear of change doesn't mean that 
any new idea is automatically better.  The 20th C saw loads of brilliant new 
ideas - the Nazi Party, the Great Cultural Revolution, Betamax video....:)
The problem with spelling reform is that all reformers assume that their 
speech is the one to be simulated, and will be accepted by all.

Paul

----------

From: Rikus Kiers <kiersbv at tiscali.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2006.01.13 (01) [E]

Discussion between Reinhardt and Gabrielle About the origin of resistance to
renewal of language.
1 If both of you ever did fall in heavy love, than you will remember that
the distance between fear and love and comfort and uneasiness is
neglectable.
2 So I believe you both are right
3  Nevertheless it strikes me that Ron, most of the time living in America,
grasps the fear-factor and Gabrielle, whom I know as a defender of High
German sees in first instance the positive factors
4 Or maybe Ron is deep in his inner being still the German-European person
in the first place. Your mother defines your culture, isn't?
5 While formulating this I was thinking of al the American trainingprograms
I enjoyed, after every training I thought the world was mine, because of the
always dominating preaching of positive thinking.
6 Gradually I start loving you both because of the glamor of your knowledge
and opinions, which at the same time fears me sometimes to open my mouth.
7 This is interesting

Rikus Kiers

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Our Gabriele:

> Sorry, nice Google job,

Uh-oh!  Another invalidating attempt on the basis of a false assumption and 
allegation!

> None of these mention spelling.

I was not operating on the surface level.

> Also, not every change is for the better

Our Paul:

> The fact that conservatism can be due to a fear of change
> doesn't mean that any new idea is automatically better.

I didn't say or imply that, was only talking about narrowmindedness (i.e., 
fear-based refusal to examine proposals objectively).

> The problem with spelling reform is that all reformers assume that
> their speech is the one to be simulated, and will be accepted by all.

Which would not be a problem, or would be a small problem, in the case of a 
phoneme-based systems, which are supra-dialectical.  Again, we are talking 
about a *system*, not about an imposed dialect.

Our Gabriele again:

> What is going to be next - get rid of all those pesky little extra notes
> and trills that Mozart inserted all over the place?

And what does *this*, pray, have to do with the price of tea in China?

> Do you really think people want to preserve nature, art, music
> and, yes, languages out of fear?

In a word: Yes.

Unlike purely compassionate and selfless love (i.e., not motivated by 
self-benefit), most types of love equal adherence, "clinging," 
self-preservation (e.g., love of children for self-perpetuation and old-age 
security), thus fear of loss, is therefore essentially a stressful state 
(e.g., Buddhist दुःख _duhkha), even though we want to put a "positive" spin 
on it to pretty it up and not to sound cynical.

And our dear Rikus (who's brave enough to set foot on a mine field):

> 1 If both of you ever did fall in heavy love, than you will remember that
> the distance between fear and love and comfort and uneasiness is
> neglectable.

Thanks.  That's what I meant.

> 4 Or maybe Ron is deep in his inner being still the German-European person
> in the first place. Your mother defines your culture, isn't?

No, not really.  I am the product of my (male-dominated) upbringing, my 
experiences (which involve life in several cultures) and my individual, 
mostly self-imposed "vision quests."  I am European-Australian-American, 
culturally and philosophically Eurasian, Australian and American (with 
considerable emphasis on East Asian).  I wouldn't be this had I closed my 
mind to change, to "otherness," to the braver, irreverent and hence feared 
"New World."

> 6 Gradually I start loving you both

That goes both ways, as far as I am concerned.

> because of the glamor of your knowledge
> and opinions,

"Glamor," no less?

(Psst ... Gabriele and I really love each other, also love smacking each 
other upside the head.)

> which at the same time fears me sometimes to open my mouth.

Oh, try to lose that part, though.  No one should feel intimidated here.

> 7 This is interesting

It is, indeed.

Reinhard (without a t)/Ron 

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