LL-L 'History' 2006.07.10 (03) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 10 July 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.10 (02) [E]

> From: 'Global Moose Translations'
> <globalmoose at t-online.de>
> Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.09 (03) [E]
>
>...clip...

> >By the way, North Germans and Eastern Netherlanders
> (who are largely descendant
> >of Saxons) have been routinely taught about
> Charlemagne's greatness in school.
> >At least in my school there was not explicit
> mention of his treatment of Saxons
> >and Slavs.
>
> In France, every child knows that Charlemagne is the
> bloke who "invented
> school", and hates his guts accordingly.

Hello Gabriele the Great,

Is is nice to know that historians seem to know for
certain that the parents of Charlemagne / Karel de
Grote spoke Dutch [well,eeeh, i.e. Low franconian].
And they seem also to have indications that the same
goes for his greatparents.

Now the French always wanted to see Charlemagne as the
Greatgrandfather of the Great French Nation.
And the same goes for the Germans who saw on him as
the Urgrossvater des deutschen Urreichs.

But the Dutch never accepted him as the Great Founder
of the Great Dutch Nation.

weird people, those dutchmen.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History 

Thanks Theo!

> But the Dutch never accepted him as the Great Founder
> of the Great Dutch Nation.
> 
> weird people, those dutchmen.

Perhaps "pragmatic" is a better word here?

Besides, Karl was one of theirs.  In other words, he didn't have to conquer them.
 It was mostly the vanquished other nations that had to be forced into conversion
and indoctrination, and they still haven't snapped out of the latter, sticking to
the old "unifying paternal hero" image for the sake of continued mental and
national cohesion.

On the linguistic side, there are two more bits:

(1) The name _Karol_ (originally meaning "man" > _Kerl_, _kerel_, _churl_, etc.)
came to mean "king" (perhaps originally perhaps something like "supreme
overlord") in the languages of some "integrated" ethnicities and beyond; e.g.,
Polish _król_, Sorbian _kral_, Czech _král_, Slovak _kráľ_, Belorusan кароль
_karol'_, Ukrainian & Russian король _korol'_, Bulgarian крал _kral_,
Serb-Croatian _kralj_, Latvian _karalis_, Lithuanian _karalius_, Hungarian
_király_ ...

(2) Words derived from "Frank" (and its equivalents) came to mean "Westerner" in
many Eurasian languages (_ferengi_ etc.), and the connotation is/was not always
positive.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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