LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.07.26 (02) [D/E]

Fri Jul 28 19:38:58 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28 July 2006 * Volume 02
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From: 'Stellingwerfs Eigen' <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'

Hi Ron, Sandy,
As far as I know in Dutch (because it's far after midnight so I should lay
in my bed right now).

Grote Hond (Lat.: Canis Major, genitief: Canis Majoris, afk.: CMa).
Dit sterrenbeeld was bij vele kulturen (o.a. Egyptenaren, AssyriÃ«rs,
Etrusken) al onder de naam Hond bekend. Meestal werd de hond afgebeeld samen
met de jager Orion, speurend naar de Haas. In dit sterrenbeeld staat de ster
Sirius, de helderste ster aan het firmament.
Pas veel later is de Kleine Hond (Lat.: Canis Minor, genitief: Canis
Minoris, afk.: CMi) ontdekt. Dit kleine sterrenbeeld staat ten oosten van
Eenhoorn en Orion en ten zuiden van Tweelingen en Kreeft. Bij de Grieken
stond deze hele groep sterren bekend onder de naam Prokyoon (vÃ³Ã³r-hond). De
Romeinen voerden later het voorvoegsel minor (= de kleinere) in ter
onderscheiding van de (Grote) Hond.

Ergo: Eerst was er Hond, toen kwam de Kleinere Hond en is men Hond als Grote
Hond gaan noemen.
Dus eigenlijk: (Grote) Hond en Kleinere Hond en niet _Grotere_ Hond en
Kleinere Hond. In de volksmond is het tenslotte de Grote Hond en de Kleine
Hond geworden.
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

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From: 'Stellingwerfs Eigen' <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'

jonny wrote:
> Wow- a word I'd never seen written before but existing in my mind: LS:
_feller_,
> I guess spoken like 'fellow' in Scots, for my imagination.

Jonny, I worked for several years im Kreis Frankfurt a/M. People around
there use a word like _gelle_ as a 'stopwoord'. Allmost after jeder Phrase
they use that word, like: "will You please give me this, gelle." "Du hast
einen schÃ¶ne Farad, gelle." Could that word has something to do with your
_feller_?
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

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From: 'Mari Sarv' <Mari at haldjas.folklore.ee>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.07.26 (05) [E]

> From: 'Reinhard (Ron) F. Hahn' <rhahn at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> N.B.: Estonian _vapsik_ 'hornet' (< Middle Saxon _waps(e)_ <
> Old Saxon _waspa_);

_vapsik_ (Vespa crabro) is known only in South-East of Estonia, see the map:
http://www.eki.ee/cgi-bin/murdekaart.cgi\?num=65766&sona=vapsik\(as)
more common is _vaablane_, where -lane is common sufix for someone (as in
_herilane_),
in South Estonia _vasklane_

> as opposed to apparently native _herilane_ 'wasp', 'hornet',
> cf. Finnish
> _herhilÃƒÂ¤inen_ 'hornet', which I, however, considered related
> to (loaned from?)
> Slavonic or Baltic (see above, bearing in mind the
> relationship between _s_ and _h_).

Alo Raun's etymological lexicon http://www.eki.ee/dict/raun/ gives:
vapsik (+ vaablane) lmsm. [baltic-finnic] Â« blt. led. vapsÃ 
herilane e-vd-sm. [Estonian, Votic, Finnish] Â« blt. led. Å¡Ã¬rÅ¡Ä—

vapsik is 3-4 times bigger than herilane

Mari Sarv

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From: 'jonny' <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.07.26 (05) [E]

Dear Ron,

you wrote:
> So, Jonny, what does this _feller_ actually mean in that dialect? I think
> you
> forgot to tell us.
And you are quite right here! Shame on me- maybe it's a consequence of the
enduring 'saharian' weather having dried out the small rest of my brain ;-)!

It's of course very close to E: 'fellow', used for example in the way LS: 'Pass
opp/Wohr Dii, Feller!', G: 'Pass mal auf, Freundchen!', 'Kerl, nimm dich in
Acht!'. I have never heard it been used in the sense of LS: 'Hey is eyn gouden
Feller.'; G: 'Er ist ein guter Kerl.', E: 'He is a good fellow.'
BTW- I think its sound would be clearer if we wrote it this way: _F*ÃƒÂ¦*ller_ or
even _FÃƒÂ¦ll*a*_.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: 'jonny' <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.07.26 (05) [E]

It's of course very close to E: 'fellow', used for example in the way LS: 'Pass
opp/Wohr Dii, Feller!', G: 'Pass mal auf, Freundchen!', 'Kerl, nimm dich in
Acht!'. I have never heard it been used in the sense of LS: 'Hey is eyn gouden
Feller.'; G: 'Er ist ein guter Kerl.', E: 'He is a good fellow.'
BTW- I think its sound would be clearer if we wrote it this way: _F*Ã¦*ller_ or
even _FÃ¦ll*a*_. 

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.07.26 (05) [E]

    From: 'Reinhard (Ron) F. Hahn'
    Subject: Etymology

    By the bye, Low Saxon names for "hornet" are these:

    - hournt (Hoornt, Huurnt) (f., pl. __s)
    - hoyrnt (HÃ¶Ã¶rnt, HÃ¼Ã¼nt) (f., pl. __s)
    - hourntje (Hoorntje, Huurntje) (dim., n., pl. __s)
    - hoyrn(e)tje (HÃ¶Ã¶rntje, HÃ¶Ã¶rnetje) (dim., n., pl. __s).......

    Old Saxon: horneta, hornut, hornobero
    Old English: hurnitu, hirnitu, hyrnetu, hyrnet
    Middle Dutch: hÃ´rnete, hornte, horsel(e) (> E.Mod horener, horzel)
    Old German: hornuz, hornoz, hornaz (> Hornisse).....

    Kumpelmenten,
    Reinhard/Ron

In geology, a small hot spot on the side of an active volcano, a kind of
mini-volcano, is sometimes called a "hornito".  I struggle to find any connection
with a big fierce wasp - other than the fact that they both hurt!

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: 'jonny' <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>   
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.07.25 (08) [E]

My today's lesson:

quote:

de hondsdagen - die Hundstage
iets in de gaten houden - auf etwas achten
het sterrenbeeld - das Sternbild
bederven - verderben

***

Hondsdagen

De komende tijd is het belangrijk om etenswaren goed
in de gaten te houden, want de hondsdagen zijn aangebroken.
Die dagen hebben niets te maken met het dier, maar met het
sterrenstelsel. Het gaat om de periode waarin de heldere ster
Sirius van het sterrenbeeld de Grote Hond gelijk met de zon
opkomt, ongeveer tussen 20 juli en 20 augustus. In deze periode
bederft eten sneller.

***

Bron:
Leeuwarder Courant, webeditie
24 juli 2006
http://www.leeuwardercourant.nl

***

** 'Woord van de dag'
** Een initiatief van de vakgroep Nederlands, FU Berlin
** Abonnement nemen/opzeggen en archief op:
** http://www.niederlandistik.fu-berlin.de/woordvandedag/
**
unquote

sent by:

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: 'Reinhard (Ron) F. Hahn'
Subject: Etymology

Tere, Mari!  It's great to hear from you after quite some time.

So is the claim that _vapsik_ is of native origin?

Jonny, I wonder if this _Feller_ is an English loan reaching certain Low Saxon
communities via sailors' jargon.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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