LL-L 'Negation' 2006.06.08 (01) [E/LS/German]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 08 June 2006 * Volume 01
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From: Dave Singleton <davidsin at pt.lu>
Subject: LL-L 'Negation' 2006.06.08 (02) [E/LS]

Hi Ron,

I have to comment about this --- the French expression you use to me is perfectly
correct as a single negative.
Pleurer (infinitive-past participle) meaning to cry / rain, ne ... pas being the
negative structure
and Je veux ... I want; so as you have written it "I do not want to cry". The pas
is part of the method -- ne....jamais and so on.

I think we have to be a tad careful about the translation of such phrases. I tend
to get rid of double negatives anyway, (Don't tell anyone about this -- etc oops
what a slip) literal use of double negative structures could have something to do
with enforcing an idea of negativity which would immediately get lost in
translation and to the translator seem like a double negative. The native speaker
probably ignores this structure and "hears" only a single negative.

regards
Dave Singleton
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Negation

Besides, double negatives are strongly developed in Romance languages, but they
get away with it since most of those are venerated as _Kultursprachen_ by the
very same language snoots; e.g., Italian _Non voglio mangiare niente_ ("Not
I-want to-eat nothing"), Spanish _No voy a decir nada a nadie nunca jamas_ ("Not
I-go to say nothing to nobody never never"), French _Je ne veux pas pleurer_ ("I
not want not to-cry"). In Romanian, double negatives are mandatory (e.g., _nu
deranjez pe nimeni niciodată_ "not I-disturb [to] nobody never"). This applies
in all Modern Slavonic varieties as well, in Hungarian also (e.g., _Nincs semmim_
"Nothing I have not", _Ne mondd el senkinek_ "Don't tell no one about it"), and,
yes, even Classical Greek, the _Kultursprache_ _par excellence_, uses double
negatives (e.g., _μὴ θορÏ
βήσῃ μηδείς_ "do not let no one raise an uproar").

----------

From: 'Utz H. Woltmann' <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Negation' 2006.06.08 (02) [E/LS]

Jonny schreev:

>
>Let's stop at this point- _nienich_ schull'n wii _nienich_ bruuken! For the
>interest of our matter! OK?
>
Mien beste Jonny,

kiek maal wedder in en Nokixel / please have a look in a dictionary:

Lindow: "*ni, nich,* adv., nicht, nie, verstärkt /ni nich /nie, niemals;..."
Lindow: "*nix, nicks, *pron., nichts: /nix nich /gar nichts"
Harte: "*nie,* adv., nie (nich); ..."
Harte: "*nichts, *pron., nix (nich);..."
Sass: "*nix *nichts;...*~nich* nichts"

Ook in de Niederdeutsche Grammatik steiht wat in / You can find in the
Low Saxon Grammar:
"Auch bei der Satznegation ist die doppelte Verneinung im Gegensatz zum
Standarddeutschen üblich. Hierfür wird zusätzlich das Adverb /nich/
verwendet.
/De Hund hett em /narms nich /sehn.
De Hund hett em /ni nich /höört."
/

Ook in Polen snackt de Lüüd mit de dubbelte Negatschoon / The Poles use
the double negation, too:

to nic nie jest - it is nothing
nikt nic nie słyszał - nobody heard anything
on nigdy nic nie mówi - he never says anything.

I found the double negation in the dialect of Danzig/Gdańsk as well:

Mein Bängelchen.

Nu schlaf, mein Jungchen, schlaf' ma scheen Und mach de Augchens dicht, ...

Belach, de Blus', belach de Schirz;
Das macht ja *nuscht nich*. Weißt,
Rochst auch nich immer nach Jewirz,
Mich rochst nach Nälken meist.
War nie väkehrt, war *nie nich* schlimm
-So - Dubbs'chen is all blank-.
Nu puhl dich nich mehr inne Jimm
Und werd' mich bloß nich krank....

http://www.jessner.homepage.t-online.de/dams1.htm

Kumpelmenten
Utz H. Woltmann

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