LL-L "Diversity" 2006.03.04 (02) [E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 04 February 2006 * Volume 02
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Diversity" 2006.03.03 (03) [E]


  Críostóir, Dan and all;
One thing I noticed in Wales was that often the Welsh goes above the 
English, but in a smaller font.  However, this is largely due to space, 
since in most cases a Welsh word or phrase requires about 50% more letters 
than it's English translation!

Another notable effect was that I rapidly picked up the Welsh for common 
terms on road signs etc, at least to read, even if I couldn't pronounce 
them; it is quicker to recognise the Welsh for "Slow Down" or "Services" 
than to read on to find the English.  This must subliminally reinforce the 
language.

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Diversity" 2006.03.03 (12) [E]


  From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha
  Subject: LL-L "Diversity" 2006.03.03 (08) [E]

  Pat Reynolds wrote:
  "...the Co-op in Hay on Wye puts Welsh on top and largest (and sometimes
  doesn't put the English on at all) ... and this store is in England."

  That is an interesting example of overspill.

  I understand there are a couple of thousand autochthonous (there's that 
word
  again) Welsh speaking communities situated in what is legislatively
  England - I have heard Oswestry described as a "Welsh-speaking town" more
  than once, which I took to mean it was a town with a Welsh-speaking
  minority, possibly migrant in origin. Historically Oswestry seems to have
  been Welsh-speaking until the modern era, though - the famous Celtic
  language scholar Edward Lhuyd hailed from there, and the town's western
  hinterland (situated in what is legislatively Wales) is still 
predominantly
  Welsh-speaking today.
from Paul Finlow-Bates

But Wales doesn't reciprocate with this recognition of "Legislative" versus 
"Traditional" boundaries.  All of Wales uses bilingual signage, including 
the Southwest, Pembroke area.  Here all the place names are Germanic - 
largely Anglo-Danish.  The area was once termed the "Englishry" as it was 
always inguistically distinct from other parts of Wales.  If it important to 
recognise the character of minority areas in the English- German- or Dutch- 
speaking world (and this group surely exists because most members believe 
that?) then the same should apply to other countries.  Wales is in effect 
atempting to homogenize the country.

Paul

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From: Heather Rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Diversity" 2006.03.03 (12) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>I would be grateful if anyone on the list could clarify the pos! ition of
ancient, autochthonous Welsh in Oswestry or any other part of the former
Welsh marches in England.<

We have an area in our village ( between the Teme valley and the river
Severn)  called Highfields.

In researching our local history, I discovered that until quite recently
one of the cottages there went under the name of Huckerfield.

Hucker? Uchaf/ucha ? = high / upper

We have now traced this name back in the same location into the 1600s - so
no recent import.

Could it be a remanent of Welsh that has survived?

Heather 

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