LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.09 (11) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

09 March 2006 * Volume 11
=======================================================================

From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Delectables" 2006.03.08 (02) [E]

Beste Lowlanders,
In ouder Nederlands betekende "kloot" = bal; zo werd een  komeet een "vurige
kloot" genoemd; zo was een bol kaas "klootjeskaas", zo was de aardbol de
"wereldkloot; de mensen, het mensdom dus, was het klootjesvolk, term die nu
nog gebruikt wordt.. Maar dit woord heeft een verenging van betekenis gekend
en werd inderdaad: teelbal (d.i. een bal waardoor men kan telen) of
testikel.
Als we in Oostende bepaalde praatjes gezever vinden, zeggen we: "'t zien
klootn van droge hoarieng" (het zijn teelballen van gerookte haringen);
gerookte haring wordt ook wel eens "koperkeun" genoemd", dit is het Oostends
voor: koperen konijn!
Een tijd geleden werd er gehandeld en van gedachten gewisseld over "grie,
gried, griet ...". Welnu, onze Ijslandvaarders, de vissers op Ijsland dus,
noemden het gruis van schelpen op de Ijslandse kusten: "griet". Als ze de
schelvis gromden of wamden (in 't Oostends "gutn") dan werden hun vingers
geschaafd en geschramd door dit gruis en dan kregen ze een aandoening tussen
de vingers "'t fort snot" genoemd; fort = rot; snot = neusvocht.
Toetnoasteki van uut Osténde!
Roland Desnerck

----------

From: Stellingwerfs Eigen <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.09 (06) [E/LS]

Ron schreef:
> I personally don't think there's any connection between _Klöten_ and
> _Klöterkraam_.  In my book they are _kloyten_ ["kl9It=n] ~ ["klOIt=n]
versus
> _kloeter-_ ["kl9:t3`] (diphthong vs monophthong).  I understand that
> _Klöter-_ (AS _kloeter-_) and the vern _klötern_ (AS _kloetern_) mean 'to
> rattle', also in Hamburg Missingsch.  So _Klöterkraam_ is "rattling
stuff",
> meaning 'this and that and sundry', usually with the connotation
> 'worthless'.  Consider also Dutch _kleuterschool_ for 'kindergarten' or
> 'preschool' (where the little ones rattle their rattles?).

Hey Ron/Jonny,
Q: Ron, don't you mix things up? As far as know
_kleuter_ (little child in Dutch, and Stellingwarfs to) has nothing to do
with
_kloot_ (mv. kloten; testicle(s)) neither with
_kluut_ (or _klute_) (mv. kluten; little piece of ...).
"een klute kleuters het kloten" ("some children have testicles")
kleuterschoele(n) = kleuterschool
kloot/kloten = teelbal(len)
klute(n) (ok: kloete, kluit, kluut) = brok grond of zoks
Perhaps you made the link in Duuts _Klöte_ (mv. _Klöter)?

Ik ken wel een _klotekraom_ as "alle rommel zusammen".

But I'm not a expert on this...
mvg
Piet Bult

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

You misunderstood, Piet.

What I said was that in my opinion there can be *no* relationship between
_Klöten_ and _Klöter_, and I said this in connection with Jonny's mention of
_Klöterkraam_ 'worthless, superfluous stuff'.  The German-based spelling is
misleading in that <ö> serves to represent two different sounds.  If you
have to use the German-based system you should use the full system, which
would be like this: <Klöten> vs <Klœter>, in Dutch-based spelling <kluiten>
or <klöiten> or <kloiten> vs <kleuter> (in As spelling <kloyten> vs
<kloeter>).  _Kloeter_ means 'rattle', such as a baby's toy rattle.
_Kloetern_ means 'to rattle'.  (It refers to the sound of loose items inside
something that is shaken.  So _kloeterkraam_ may mean "lots of loose bits
and pieces.")

My assumption or guess is that this _Kloeter_ is somehow related to Dutch
_kleuter_.

> But I'm not a expert on this...

Nor am I.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron 

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================