LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.13 (13) [E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 13 March 2006 * Volume 13
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.13 (10) [E]

"There are nine million bicycles in Beizhing" according to Cathy Malua's
hit. I already wondered why she didn't pronounce it with a "j".
In Dutch, Beijing is often still called Peking. I think in Dutch ears,
Mandarin Chinese "Beijing" would sound more like "Peiching", because we
don't aspirate our stops, so Mandarin b = Dutch p, Mandarin g = Dutch k,
Mandarin d = Dutch t, Mandarin j = Dutch tsj [tS] etc.
I don't know if speakers of other non-aspirating languages like French,
or speakers of aspirating languages like English and German would hear
this kind of stops different from eachother. In European languages there
are usually only two series of stops: voiced and voiceless ones, the
latter with or without aspiration. In Mandarin Chinese, as in many other
Asian languages, there are three series: voiced, unaspirated voiceless, ad
aspirated voiceless. In some languages like Hindi etc there are also
voiced aspirated stops.

Ingmar

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Phonology:

>As for English speakers saying [Z] (as in _pleaSure_) for "exotic" <j>,
this
>might be classified as "affectation arising from ignorance."  It sounds
>"more exotic" ("more foreign").  It may have begun with people who had
some
>French knowledge.  So you don't only get this with Arabic names and words
>but with those in other parts as well, especially in Asia; e.g., <Taj
>Mahal>* -> _Tazh Mahal_, <Tajikistan> -> _Tazhikistan_ (though not
>widespread), <Beijing> -> _Beizhing_, <Nanjing> -> _Nanzhing_.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Hoi, Ingmar!

Just a quick tweak here: Mandarin does not have voiced stops.  In other 
words, a consonant can have no more than two versions:

Sonorants: voiced (v voiceless)
Stops and affricates: voiceless unaspirated v voiceless aspirated

Voiced stops are very rare in Chinese, occur mostly in dialects of the Min 
language, such as [bæ] where other Chinese languages, including Mandarin, 
have [ma] (e.g., 馬 'horse').

> Mandarin j = Dutch tsj [tS]

Actually, Dutch _tj_ would be a bit closer to Mandarin [tɕ] (in some 
dialects [ts]).

Cheerio!
Reinhard/Ron 

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