LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (04) [A/D/E/LS]
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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L O W L A N D S - L * 19 March 2006 * Volume 04
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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (07) [E]
Dear Ron:
Subject: Etymology
You might also mention that in Afrikaans the word 'wipstert' (wagtail) used
to be applied to a girl who would wear a sort of short tight skirt with
intent, or equally tight shorts (hot-pants), popularly called einabroeke
(ouch!pants) or else benoudeboudebroeke (squeezed buttocks pants)...
< forgot to mention that Low Saxon _wipsteyrt_ ~ _wüpsteyrt_ (<Wippsteert> ~
<Wippstiert> ~ <Wüppsteert>) can also denote a person, usually a child, that
can't sit still for any length of time, that keeps moving and running around
or that is impatient.
Burning midnight oil, stealing time to write; great to read of you all.
Hi, Elsie: Hou hulle besig!
Yrs,
Mark
----------
From: Hugo Zweep <Zweep at bigpond.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (07) [E]
My mother used to call one of my daughters a "hittepettit" when she was not
only active but also feisty at the same time.
Hugo Zweep
----------
From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (07) [E]
In Drenthe Low Saxon (NL) this bird's names are:
-wüpstartien
-blikstartien
-bouwmannegien
-akkermannegien
In Hamaland Low Saxon of Winterswijk the wagtail has even more names:
-ploogmenneken
-kooheerdeken
-bouwmeisterken
-ploogsteertken
-landmenneken
-wipstat
-kwekstat
Regards
Ingmar
>From: R. F. Hahn
>> Nedersasksisch (Nederduits) voor _Motacilla alba_, 'witte kwikstaart',
>> 'rouwkwikstaart', w-fries _boumantsje_, duits _Bachstelze_,
>> _Trauerbachstelze_, engels _pied wagtail_, _white wagtail_, deens _hvid
>> vipstjert_, noorsk _linerle_, zweeds _süde(r)sürla_,
>> kwiksteyrt (<Quicksteert>) ~
>> wipsteyrt ~ wüpsteyrt (<Wippsteert> ~ <Wippstiert> ~ <Wüppsteert>)
>> ook _wit ..._ (<witt ...>)
>>
>> Glossarium:
>> kwik : lively
>> steyrt : tail
>> wip ~ wüp : to wag, to bob
>> (wipsteyrt ~ wüpsteyrt : wagtail)
----------
From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (07) [E]
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> I forgot to mention that Low Saxon _wipsteyrt_ ~ _wüpsteyrt_
> (<Wippsteert> ~ <Wippstiert> ~ <Wüppsteert>) can also denote a person,
> usually a child, that can't sit still for any length of time, that
> keeps moving and running around or that is impatient.
>
I wonder if this is anything to do with the Scots word "swippert"? It
just means "fast-moving", usually in describing people, I think.
Presumably related to the English "swift"?
Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/
----------
From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (07) [E]
Beste Lowlanders, beste zwaartaalwerkverzettende Ron,
In West-Vlaanderen is "e kwik" een ongedurige persoon, "etwien die gin
zitted gat hét" (iemand die geen zittend gat heeft);
dit is misschien interessant: in oeroude tijden had je - net als in de
Polynesische talen - geen twee medeklinkers achter elkaar, m.a.w. "poelen"
(vijvertjes) is ouder dan "spoelen", zo misschien ook wel "zwelgen" en
"walgen", "steken" en "tikken", "spreken" en "preken"; welnu:
zouden zo "kwik" en "kik" ook verwant zijn; (hij geef geen kik: er zat geen
beweging in, hij roerde niet); en oh ja: een "schommelpaard" is in het
Oostends: duispêrd of wuppepêrd (vgl. Deens vipstjert).
Toetnoasteki,
Roland Desnerck
----------
From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.16 (03) [E]
> Quiet a few people in my region are called "(Van) Quickelberghe" ,
> which is of the same "quick" origine i suppose.
> (Even one of our ministers has a last name like that.)
> Luc Vanbrabant
> Oekene
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> In Low Saxon, _kwik_ (<quick>) means 'lively', 'agile', in certain
> contexts also 'refreshing', as in _kwikborn_ (<Quickborn> "quick
> bourne/source/well"), which can be understood as "quick bourne,"
> "lively bourne" of "refreshing/life-giving bourne."* Compare also
> German _erquicken_ 'to refresh' and the word "quicksilver" (German
> _Quecksilber_)
>
> * Cf. Scots _quick_ 'living', 'alive', 'swarming', 'infested',
> 'running water', also _burn_ 'brook'
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
Sorry for my incomplete sentence about our minister. There should
have been:
Even one of our ministers has a last name like that: Van Quickenborne !
This matches with the LS that you mentione here above.
Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene
----------
From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"
A long time agoo (2003)i did have a question to ask to our Lowlanders.
I did a quick search in the archives. This was the article.
Hello,
...
In V we have a very particular sentence that says
"Teure moa deure"
We say that when we are very polite ( together with a little gesture
with the hands) meaning "After you madame( or sir)", or also "Pleace
go, everything is ok".
In D you can say "Ga maar door". But "teure" is not a synonym for
"gaan". So the verb does not exist in Dutch. Is there a Lowlands
language where it is known?
...
At that time i did not have any reply.
A few weeks agoo i read the book
"West-Vlaams, taal in stad en land", by Magda Devos and Reinhild
Vandekerckhove.
And there i found the answer!
Hugo Ryckeboer explains that "teure" in Western Flemish hides a very old
verb "horren" or "hurren", which is of the same origin as the English
"hurry". In Middle-Dutch you had still the imperative: Horre! or Hurre!
(Come on!) "Teure" is a contraction of "Doe Hurre / Toe hurre!" , so
just the equivalent of the English "Do hurry!"
Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene
----------
From: Arend Victorie <victorie.a at HOME.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (05) [D]
Moi Bas, Theo en Reinhard.
Etymolochisch woordenboek van de Vries en Tollenaere.
Die gef veur <Kwikstaart> quicstert(1518 Leuvense Bijdragen 83,217)
VGL. mnd. quiksterd, nhd. wippsterz,eng.wagtail.
Bij oons in Drenthe nuumt wij hum ok wel:
Akkermannegie(n)
bouwmannegie(n)
blikstartie(n)
wupstartie(n)
Goodgaon,
Arend Victorie
----------
From: Marcel Bas <marcelbas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (05) [D]
Beste Theo,
>Even aansluitend: we weten allemaal dat er in het
>nederlands woorden bestaan met kwik-.
Ja, maar niet alle Nedersaksisch sprekenden in Duitsland en de Verenigde
Staten, en ook niet alle Zuid-Afrikanen die Nederlands kunnen lezen. Ik wou
hen laten weten dat er ook in het Nederlands, een van de weinige Nederduitse
talen met een nationale status, dit woord bestaat.
Aansluitend op kwikstaartje: in het Afrikaans wordt een nauwe verwant van
dit vogeltje, met hetzelfde gedrag, _kwikkie_ genoemd. Er gaat het volgende
rijmpje de rondte: "Gaat hy, dan staat hy; staat hy, dan gaat hy".
Dit zit 'm in het feit dat zijn staartje stilstaat als hij rent, en het
beweegt als het vogeltje stilstaat.
Met vriendelijke groet,
Marcel Bas.
----------
From: Marcel Bas <marcelbas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (05) [D]
Beste mensen,
Theo vraagt wanneer het woord _kwikstaart_ het eerst opgetekend was. Jan de
Vries (1971) zegt dat het reeds bij Kiliaen (1599) was opgetekend als
Middelnederlands _quikstert_, _quekstert_, dus de vogel met de levendige,
bewegelijke staart. Daarnaast werd de vogel ook elders benoemd, vgl. Engels
_ wagtail,_ Deens r_umpevrikker_, Frans _hoche-queue_, Hoogduits
_Wippsterz_, Italiaans _squassacoda_, Grieks _seisopugís_.
In het Afrikaans bestaat dit woord niet als bijvoeglijk naamwoord; ook niet
in de vorm _kwiek_. Wel bestaat er het zelfst. nw. _kwik_ als het metaal,
en dus _kwikkie_, het vogeltje. Het wordt ook _kwikstertjie_ genoemd
(Motacilla capensis). In het Afrikaans kent men ook het woord kwiek maar dat
is een werkwoord dat alleen in vaste uitdrukkingen voorkomt, zoals in
_Sonder om te kwiek of te kwaak_ , wat 'zonder iets te zeggen of tegen te
spreken' betekent. De vergelijking met het Nederlandse _kik_ in de
uitdrukking "geen kik geven" dringt zich op.
Met vriendelijke groet,
Marcel
http://www.roepstem.net
----------
From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.15 (03) [A/E]
-----Original Message-----
From: Elsie Zinsser [mailto:ezinsser at icon.co.za]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:40 PM
To: lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
Subject: RE: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.15 (03) [A/E]
Haai julle,
In Afrikaans gebruik ons die term 'katte[r]maai' wat enersyds
die lawaai is wat katte gedurende paring maak, en andersyds
die kabaal is wanneer mense partytjie hou of baklei.
Die woord 'maai' is gelaai met betekenis en kan ook beteken
'moer' (slaan), 'baarmoeder' (uterus) en 'ma'.
Nou kan ons oor 'kabaal' gesels!
Groete,
Elsie Zinsser
caterwaul, v.
1. _intr._ Of cats: To make the noise proper to them at rutting time.
Prof. Skeat explains Caterw(r)awet, in Chaucer, as a verbal n., on the
type of OE. _on huntað_, a-hunting.
c1386 CHAUCER Wife's Prol. (Harl.) 354 If the cattes skyn be slyk and gay,
forth she wil, er eny day be dawet, To schewe hir skyn, and goon a
caterwrawet [so Corpus: 5 texts have -wawed].
2. _transf._ To utter a similar cry; to make a discordant, hideous noise; to
quarrel like cats.
1621 BURTON _Anat. Mel._ I. ii. III. x. (1676) 66/2 They will let them
[children] caterwaule, sterue, begge and hang.
3. To be in heat; to be lecherous; to behave amorously or lasciviously; to
woo (_contemptuous_).
1599 NASHE _Lent. Stuffe_ (1871) 89 The friars and monks caterwauled, from
the abbots and priors to the novices.
Etymology:
[This occurs in the various forms _caterwrawe_, _-wawe_, _-wrawl(e_,
_-wawle_, _-waul_. The second element appears separately in the vb. _wrawen_
used (of a cat) by Caxton, _wrawlen_, _wraule_ of cats, squalling children,
etc., frequent in Googe, Tusser, Holland, and others from c 1570 to 1625 or
later; _waul_ is of doubtful occurrence before 1600. The precise relation
between these is not clear; all are prob. imitative of the sound, but
whether the forms in -l are formed on the others (cf. mew, mewl, Ger.
_miauen_, _miaulen_, and F. _miauler_) is doubtful.
Forms akin to _wrawe_, _wrawl_ in other langs. are Da. _vraale_, Sw.
_vråla_, to roar, bellow, bawl, Norw. dial. _råla_, in the north of Norway
'to cry as a cat', LG. _wralen_ (Bremen Wbch.) said of a stallion in heat,
also of an ill-behaved man, 'to be noisy and unruly'; cf. also Bavarian
_rauen_, _rauelen_ 'to howl, whine', said esp. of the cat, also Swiss
_rauen_, _räulen_, the latter esp. of the cry of the cat when in heat. (Wr-
becomes r- in HG.: an OE. *_wreawlian_, ME. _wrawlen would answer exactly to
Bav. _rauelen_.) The sense of the Ger. words also comes near the Eng., since
both in Chaucer and in the transf. use of the 16-17th c., the word was spec.
applied to the cry and behaviour of the cat when 'after kind'. As to the
_-waul_ form, an exact LG. counterpart _katterwaulen '(von Kindern) schreien
und heulen wie streitende Katzen'_ is given by Schambach, _Göttingisches
Grubenhagen'sches Idiotiken_ 1858, but its history is uncertain; cf. also
Icel. _vála_ to wail.
Cater is, of course, connected with AT, but the form is not certainly
explained: some would see in it a parallel to Du. and Ger. _kater_ male cat,
which may once have existed in OE.; but the word appears too late to prove
this. Others would take _-er_ as some kind of suffix or connective merely.]
</quote>
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
----------
From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.18 (07) [E]
Haai almal,
Ron, ons het in Afrikaans ook die kwikstertjie - 'n voeltjie wie se stertjie
wip
as sy loop maar staan as sy sit (ook 'n wipstertjie genoem), en natuurlik
ook die woord 'wip' soos wanneer 'n tienderjarige haarself vererg, met
dieslfde betekenis soos in Duits 'eingeschnappt sein'.
Groete,
Elsie
> Nedersasksisch (Nederduits) voor [snip] duits _Bachstelze_,
> kwiksteyrt (<Quicksteert>) ~
I forgot to mention that Low Saxon _wipsteyrt_ ~ _wüpsteyrt_ (<Wippsteert> ~
<Wippstiert> ~ <Wüppsteert>) can also denote a person, usually a child, that
can't sit still for any length of time, that keeps moving and running around
or that is impatient.
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology
My, my! Mr. Willie Wagtail turned out to be a very charismatic fella.
Interesting uses of the related words in Afrikaans, Elsie and Mark!
Interesting, isn't it, that it's _stert_ for 'tail' in Afrikaans, as opposed
to _staart_ in Dutch? (It's _steyrt_ ~ _steert_ in Low Saxon.)
By the way, the name for "wagtail" is _akkerman(tje)_ (<Ackermann(tje)>
"husbandman") in some Low Saxon dialects of Germany also.
Our Elsie:
> dieslfde betekenis soos in Duits 'eingeschnappt sein'.
For the benefit of everyone else, German _eingeschnappt sein_ means
something like 'to be in a huff'.
By the way, German _wippen_ and Low Saxon _wippen_ ~ _wüppen_ means 'to bob
up and down', 'to teeter-totter', or 'to seesaw'. German _Wippe_ and Low
Saxon _wip_ (<Wipp>) ~ _wüp_ (<Wüpp>) or _wipwap_ (<Wippwapp>) ~ _wüpwap_
(<Wüppwapp>) mean 'seesaw', 'teeter-totter' (noun, Dutch _getouwtrek_,
Spanish _subibaja_, Portuguese _balanço_, Italian _altalena_, French
_balançoire_, Polish _huśtawka na desce_, Czech _řezání_, Russian качели,
Hungarian _libikóka_, _mérleghinta_, Estonian _kiiklaud_, Finnish
_keinulauta_, Indonesian _papan jungkat-jungkit_, Japanese _シーソー_, Korean
시소, Chinese 蹺蹺板, Arabic تأرجح, لعبة المرجحة).
So this _wipstert_ has quite a varied life in Afrikaans, hasn't it?
Our Mark:
> You might also mention that in Afrikaans the word 'wipstert' (wagtail)
> used
> to be applied to a girl who would wear a sort of short tight skirt with
> intent, or equally tight shorts (hot-pants), popularly called einabroeke
> (ouch!pants) or else benoudeboudebroeke (squeezed buttocks pants)...
Thanks for the vivid description, Mark. It brought back a piece of memory,
namely that I have heard it used by an English-speaking South African who
liked to say that she disliked "South African Dutch" but would use Afrikaans
words whenever she "forgot herself" ... It was a joy. Despite her
hierarchical likes and dislikes and her pretentiousness, she was a lovely
lady and gave my Australian coworker (still one of my best friends) and me
hours of laughter when we worked "under" her in Israel. Nora would arrange
our work space at the window facing the main walkway, and she would make
comments about whoever passed by the window. Since she was a retired
English teacher, in her time the only English teacher, she knew all the
local young and youngish people very well, and she would occasionally dash
outside to give one or the other a pop quiz to see if they were making
progress or were at least maintaining their English, and she would chastise
them severely in public if she was dissatisfied. (This would explain why so
many people took an alternative, though longer, route to the kibbutz dining
hall.) I never ever heard Nora speak Hebrew, although she claimed she
could, and she made comments about the quality of my Hebrew essays that my
teacher apparently shared with her. Nora would speak English even to people
she knew did not have any English -- simply because she believed that they
ought to be shamed into learning it. Long story cut short ... The thing
she hated most besides "lazy learners" and insufficient English was ...
well, exposure of what ought to be kept under wraps in "decent" company.
This was a challenge, since it was the 1970s, a hot climate and large
numbers of Europeans and North and Latin American young people visiting --
and many of them fell into the general category of "hippy," at least as far
as older people were concerned. (And, yes, we did have several streaking
incidents.) So once in a while, Nora would call out, "Another wipstert!",
run outside, approach the offender from behind and pull their pant legs
down, if there were any, to at least just below the buttocks. Some of the
offenders got used to it and came to expect it after a while, and most of
those took it as a big joke, sometimes pulling their shorts up extra high
before they got to Nora's seat of inspection. Since it was the 1970s, this
affected some males as well, but most were females. One newly arrived
Swedish girl screamed when it happened to her and went to make a formal
complaint about having been "molested and called names by that woman." The
"name" was _wipstert_ apparently -- an "ugly word from an ugly language."
At least that's what I believe transpired. I understood the word and told
my friend, though not Nora. So, unless time and memory are conspiring
against me, that's how I first encountered _wipstert_.
Hoi, Hugo!
> My mother used to call one of my daughters a "hittepettit" when she was
> not
> only active but also feisty at the same time.
I wonder if the first part is related to "heat" (Low Saxon _hit(ten)_) and
the second comes from French _petit(e)_ 'little'. In Low Saxon, one of the
words for a person that easily flies into a rage is _hitkop_ (<Hittkopp>),
corresponding to German _Hitzkopf_, thus almost literally equivalent of
English "hot head."
And last but not least our Luc:
> "Teure moa deure"
I wonder if this _teure_ (["t9:r@]) is related to Frisian-substrate
Oldenburg and Eastern Friesland Low Saxon _tuyren_ (<türen>) 'to aim (for)',
'to go for'.
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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