LL-L "Translation" 2006.05.05 (01) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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L O W L A N D S - L * 05 May 2006 * Volume 01
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From: "Keith Kennetz" <kkennetz at uga.edu>
Subject: "Lexicon"

From: Keith Kennetz <kkennetz at uga.edu>

Elsie Zinsser wrote:

>No, I go with Gabrielle on this.
>
>This is one of my most favourite songs and it is
>traditional and mom and dad are just not suitable!
>
>Let's vote on it!

Dear Lowlanders,

I'd like to confirm that Mom and Dad are definitely common,
everyday terms in my American Midwest (Chicago) dialect - in
fact I call my mom "Ma" (heavily nasalized) and to me this
is term that means nothing but endearment and affection and
it has always been received in that manner. Most locals from
my area would use this term too. Common terms for
grandparents are "grandma" and "grandpa". I noticed after
living in southern U.S. for some time that some my Georgia
friends use "mam" and "sir" when addressing their parents -
this seemed very formal to me (as an outsider), but over
time it seems to add an additional amount of closeness.

One issue I think when translating the song the translator
should keep in mind the target audience. Using "Mom"
and "Dad" definitely gives the translation a more colloquial
and modern feel. In the end its probably the intentions of
the translator that make the difference. That "mom" is
judged by some to be "ugly" and by others to be "respectful,
affectionate" are subjective judgements (which themselves
are completely valid) but these evaluations should be
recognized as such.

Lastly, Im not sure what the somewhat one-sided view of
American culture in this thread has to do with the
discussion of terms used to address family members.

Gruss,

Keith Kennetz,
Athens, Georgia

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From: "Kevin McAuliff" <kevin_mcauliff at yahoo.com>
Subject: LOWLANDS-L Digest - 3 May 2006 to 4 May 2006 (#2006-123)

"Mama" and "Daddy" persist throughout adulthood in Northwest Georgia. 
They can be
used to refer to friends' and even casual acquaintences' parents, as well,
as in
"How's your mama?"  This is not thought odd in the least.

  Kevin McAuliff

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From: "Arthur Jones" <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon"

Lieve Laglanners,

  I refer to the discussion of Stellingwarfs, poetry, translations, and
other things
caught up in the swirl of Baukje Wietsma's poem "Gers" (Grass);

  Andrys Onsman wrote an outstanding English translation; and Hugo Zweep
schreev,
"...resistance to Americanisation..."

  It appears to me that, on reading the original and the English
translation, Andrys
has made a superior poem veritably stand up and dance in English; no mean
task,
that.

  The problem may be less one of americanisation, whatever that may have
been (Hugo
did not specify whether he meant avoidance of Americanisms, i.e., variant
orthography, idiomatic expressions, syntax, or superficiality: linguistic,
cultural, or both?)

  In any event, his text does not reveal any such problems. In fact, good
translations of good Low Saxon, Fries, Dutch or Platt poems do a real
service to
both languages involved in that process. In any comparison, Lowlands Germanic
languages can convey specific landscapes and subtle abstracts, on more
than one
level, with a quiet, chilling accuracy that deserves a far wider audience
than it
gets.

  A more general translation problem arises when, as here, the vehicle is
a very
personal attachment to specific scenes of life throughout, and the many
faces (!)
of grass are those most familiar to the poet: yet, the same vehicle
carries us
past the life stations in succession, giving us a universality --or
commonality--
of experience
  while losing none of the impact of the journey within the soul. Great
work, Andrys.

  As to language variants, together with the drums of Empire, why not let
Hegel take
care of Hegelian problems and use this time space, when US colonial
satraps are
standing onstage naked, stripped of their pompous disguise, to reassert
the same
ancient, earthy humanism Lowlanders were practicing the whole time? Surf's
up!

  Met frijandelijke groeten,

  Arthur

  Arthur A. Jones
  arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com

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From: "Global Moose Translations" <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.04 (01) [E]

Elsie wrote:
>No, I go with Gabrielle on this.

>This is one of my most favourite songs and it is
>traditional and mom and dad are just not suitable!

No, no, let's not vote, I think this has become way too big and emotional
already!

While I stand firm by my view on this translation, I think I need to
apologise for my tone, which came over a lot harsher than it was meant to
be. My only excuse is that, ever since my cancer surgery in late March, I
have been in constant pain, and therefore much grumpier and less patient
than usual (as if it hadn't been bad enough before that!). Gimme another six
weeks or so to get back to my usual sweet, ever-tolerant self! ;-)

Gabriele Kahn
(currently manning the coconut gallery, it seems)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject Translation

Your rare apparearance are real treats, Keith and Kevin!  Thanks!

Gabriele:

>  think I need to
> apologise for my tone, which came over a lot harsher than it
> was meant to be.

Me too, although I have no cancer, radiation, PMS or whatever to blame,
only an extremely stressful and overwhelming concoction of situations and
forgetting to wear a coconut-proof helmet (while my bare head usually
withstands peanuts without a problem).

This may have been a case of weird synchronicity, including my previously
suppressed urge to say something about peanuts versus coconuts.

Translation and reactions to them tend to be personal and volatile
affairs, especially when it comes to _belles lettres_ and most especially
poetry.  The facts that languages come in numerous varieties and registers
and that many words convey different ranges of meaning and associations to
people in different contexts do not make it any easier.  I find it much,
much easier to write my own poetry than to translate someone's else's.

All the greater is my admiration of our Andrys' wonderful translation of
the Frisian poem.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Sterkte, Gabriele!

----------

From: "Stellingwerfs Eigen" <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Translation"

Andrys wrote:
> Hieronder mijn vertalingen van Baukje Wietsma's prachtig gedicht van 2000
"Gers"

Inderdaad een mooi gedicht Andrys maar ik zie even niet de overeenkomst met
het 'Bokwerds' van Rink van der Velde. Hij vertaalde in een aantal boeken
allerlei verhalen in het 'Bokwerds'. Dit is een ietwat komische vertaling
van Friese woorden in het Nederlands zoals bijv. "Je soene je de boesen
dochs uutskuorre" (Je zou er vreselijk om moeten lachen) in "Je zou je de
buisen toch uitscheuren" of "It soe my tige vernuverje" (Het zou mij zeer
versteld doen staan) in "Het zou mij erg vernuiveren". Deze voorbeelden zijn
wat kneuterig maar op deze wijze schreef Rink hele boeken in het Bokwerds
(d.i. vnl. Nederlands) waarin de Friese spraak duidelijk doorklinkt.
Vervolgens vroeg ik mij (en de l-list) af of dit in meerdere talen
(literair) wel voorkomt. Het is eigenlijk net zoiets als in de beginjaren
als je voor het eerst engelse les krijgt en dan na schooltijd tegen je
vriendjes roept dat je op de 'bike' naar 'house' gaat.
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

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