LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.11.09 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 09 November 2006 * Volume 01
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From: John Duckworth [johncduckworth at yahoo.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L 'Lexicon' 2006.9.211 [English]

Dear Lowlanders,
 
here is another question about my local dialect, spoken in Lancashire. When I was
a boy a drain was referred to as a  _suff_. I suspect that the word may still be
used among rural communities, but I have not heard it in a long while. I have
often connected this word in my ming with the colloquial German word _besoffen_
(drunk), and the Bavarian dialect _g.soffe(n)_, which comes in the famous
drinking song: 'In Muenchen steht ein Hoffbrauhaus: ein, zwei, gsoffe(n)!'
 
What is interesting, though, is that the underlying verb in the word _besoffen_,
and the Bavarian Past Participle _g.soffe(n)_, has undergone a phonetic shift (
[p] > [f]), that did not occur in English. In fact, the common word for 'to
drink' in Lancashire was actually _ t@ sup_, which is the same word as the root
of the German verbs, but without the sound shif.
 
Am I wrong in relating the Lancashire word _suff_ (drain) to the Bavarian
_g.soffe(n)_ (drunk)?
 
The Lancashire dialect word _sup_ was very common; you would be asked ''av ye
supped tha tay?" (Have you drunk your tea?). Or: " 'i supps too much ale!" (he
drinks too much beer.) In Standard English there is some difference between 'ale'
and 'beer', but in Lancashire 'ale' meant 'beer'; and 'tea' was always pronounced
'tay'.
 
Regards,
 
John Duckworth
Manchester, UK

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology 

Hi, John!

This is an interesting one.

My first reaction was to first think of two English words, both of them of
uncertain origin:

(1) SUFF : (obsolete) [sVf] ~ [sUf]; water washing onto the shore, 
    inrush onto the beach
    (Some have suspected a connection with "surf.")

(2) SOUGH : [sVf] ~ [sUf]; boggy, swampy place; place of standing 
    water; drain, trench, sewer; subterranean draining channel, 
    mine adit

I opt for (2) in this case.

It's etymology isn't clear either, but the _Oxford English Dictionary_ mentions
Antwerp Brabantish _zoeg_ ([zuG]) 'small ditch in a meadow'.

I'm rather inclined to connect it with the broad Indo-European category
*_seu(g)-_ 'run (of water)', 'moist', 'wet', 'suck'

By the way, as far as I know, it's Bavarian _... oans, zwoa, gsuffa_.

The related German noun ('drunkenness') is _Suff_ [sUf]; e.g., _Er brach sich im
Suff den Hals_ 'He broke his neck while drunk'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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