SPAM:: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.06 (03) [E/German]

Fri Oct 6 14:51:22 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 06 October 2006 * Volume 03
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From: 'Scat' [Scat at cfl.rr.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.05 (08) [E]

Thanks for the cognates and proto-forms; few people have the lexica these
days to deal with them.
Scott Catledge 

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.05 (05) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
> Subject: Etymology
>
> I understand that "eve" in names for "Saturday" goes
> back to Judaism in which a
> day begins with evening, hence the beginning of the
> Jewish Sabbath on Friday
> evening (with sundown) and its end on Saturday
> evening. This very important
> welcome of the Sabbath in the evening was absorbed
> by the daughter religion
> Christianity, and we find vestiges of it in Sunday
> church services beginning on
> Saturday evening ... and in names for "Saturday."
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

Hello,

The use of starting the new day when the sun was gone,
was very wide-spread.
Also the Old-Germanics and Celts started the new day
at sundown.
As these peoples had their great festivities as a
happening of three days in a row, we still see the
remnants in e.g. Christmas and Eastern: a 2 days
celebration, but with the 'virgil' of the church the
day before. And so we still have the 3 days festivity.

[Well, in the USA Eastern is just one day, but that is
because they want to spend as much gasoline as
possible the day after.]

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Hoi, Theo!

Thanks for the added information.

> [Well, in the USA Eastern is just one day, but that is
> because they want to spend as much gasoline as
> possible the day after.]

Nice one!  But I don't think it's factual.  Being a religious holiday, Easter can
not be a public holiday, since the United States have constitutional separation
of church and state (at least in theory).  However, (again in theory) everyone
has the right to get time off for their respective holidays -- and there are
very, very many of those, given the religious diversity of the population (which
surpasses even that of Amsterdam).  Christians tend to celebrate Easter and any
other church holidays in various manners and for various lengths of time,
depending on their respective traditions, their own preferences and their
circumstances.  I know Americans of Eastern Orthodox background that take a whole
week off for Easter, and I know Western-European-born or -descended Americans
that take two or three days off for Christmas, versus the more usual one day.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates [wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.05 (05) [E]

    From Heather,

     >but also "Tamare" (old name for the river "Demer" in Limburg).  Could this
be cognate with Thames & Thame & Teme all rivers here in England?

    From Luc:

    That I dare not say.
    But something else keeps puzzling me. As far as I know, the etymology of
    the river Thames is not certain. Yet, personally I have always thought
    that there may be a connection with a Flemish city located on the left
    bank of the river Scheldt, called Temse. Point is that both Flemish
    Temse and English river Thames are called Tamise in French. Now French
    "tamise" actually means "filter" (the word has become "teems", "tems(t)"
    in modern Flemish dialects), and here I have a link with your earlier
    question about "sic" and "sike", which also both mean "filter" in Dutch
    (dialect) "zijg".

    If this is all true it would mean that England has one more thing in
    common with France *s*...both London and Paris have become big next to a
    river called "the filter" (basic idea = water slowly sinking, like a
    liquid strained through a filter); as it is often proposed that the
    French river Seine got its name from the word Sequana, which is cognate
    with "sic" and "sike".

    Kind greetings,

    Luc Hellinckx

The variants of Thames, Teme etc. in Britain are usually thought to be very old
pre-Indo-Eouropean relics, like a lot of rivers: Don, Avon, and Yar to name a few.
"Don" obviously has its European counterpart in "Donau"; there is no reason a
Continental pairing to "Thames" shouldn't exist in the same way.

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: 'Isaac M. Davis' [isaacmacdonalddavis at gmail.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.05 (05) [E]

Ron Hahn wrote:

    I understand that "eve" in names for "Saturday" goes back to Judaism in which a
    day begins with evening, hence the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath on Friday
    evening (with sundown) and its end on Saturday evening.  This very important
    welcome of the Sabbath in the evening was absorbed by the daughter religion
    Christianity, and we find vestiges of it in Sunday church services beginning on
    Saturday evening ... and in names for "Saturday."

The Jews were/are not alone in this: the traditional Celtic view was that each
day began at sundown.

Isaac M. Davis

-- 

Westron wynd, when wilt thou blow
The smalle rain down can rain
Christ yf my love were in my arms
And I yn my bed again 

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From: 'Utz H. Woltmann' [uwoltmann at gmx.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.05 (08) [E]

Ron schreev:

>My educated guess is that the unplowable bit came first, simply because of the
>etymological associations with water flowing, pouring, running off, etc., and
>land dropping.
>
>Old Saxon:
>sÄ«k : rivulet, small stream (< *sÄ«-k) > Siek
>sÄ«l : (drainage) canal, sewer, sluiceway (< *sÄ«-l) > Siel
>
Dear Ron,

near Bremen there is a small town, called Syke. The inhabitents do not
like people call their town "SÃ¼ke", they pronounce it "Sieke". On their
homepage you can find the following text:

"Nicht "SÃ¼ke" heiÃŸt die Stadt, sondern "Sieke". TatsÃ¤chlich findet man
die Schreibung mit dem "ie" oder "i" in einer Vielzahl historischer
Quellen. Schon in der um 1250 entstandenen WeserbrÃ¼ckenliste wird der
Ort Syke mit seiner heutigen Schreibweise erstmals erwÃ¤hnt. Die Deutung
des Namens scheint keine RÃ¤tsel aufzugeben: das alt- und
mittelniederdeutsche WÃ¶rtchen "sik" ist nach Meinung von Fachleuten der
SchlÃ¼ssel. Es steht unter anderem fÃ¼r "sumpfige Niederung" oder "Tal mit
Wasserlauf".

Best regards
Utz H. Woltmann

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